410 Comments

Israel needs to kill every Hamas terrorist. I can't describe here my anger and disgust at what happened. I was a Marine grunt in Vietnam and an officer in the Army in the 1st Gulf War and I didn't see anything that compares to this and I saw some bad stuff. I saw on Fox News Digital where one of the female hostages released states that when she came to after her capture she was with a Palestinian Family. Think about that and understand there are very few of them that are innocent. They hate Jews and Israel. Biden is a weak sister who has no idea what's going on in the world much less Israel. I don't know who is running the country but it ain't him. My advice is to turn Gaza into an A&P parking lot

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The West will, at one point, grasp that Western rights, freedoms, liberties, humanity, progress (moral and physical) are not compatible with the continuing presence of Islam and act accordingly. Every modern life ended by Islam until then is a non-recognized failure of the West to defend itself from the pre-modern barbarism that is Islam.

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There are no innocents in Gaza, it's a terrorist state and should be obliterated. The muslim countries don't even want these animals. Israel needs total, absolute victory and retribution on the men who carried out these crimes should all be public. Before they are executed they need to be covered in pig blood. So much for the 70 some virgins.

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This is an outrageous comment. There are 2.2 million men, women and children in Gaza. This perspective is racist, impossibly naive and an attempt to support genocide. Grow up.

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So you’re saying that only ppl of a certain race can be Muslims? And you call others “racist?”

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Judaism and Christianity had their violent centuries. But we need Islam to grow up soon because we aren't going to take a violent, misogynistic, expansive and bigoted form of Islam forever. There are plenty of beautiful parts'

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Islam has been violent since its founding.

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Any religion that commands females to undergo clitoridectomy is totally and completely insane and is totally irredeemable.

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I’m assuming you don’t refer to yourself as “multicultural,” correct? It’s THEIR culture.

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Yes it is their culture and it’s totally insane and irredeemable like I said.

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While I agree it’s barbaric, both of us view it through a Western lens. If we actually cared about those it harms, not just women - Islam is the second-biggest (behind smallpox) of human beings in history - we’d annihilate it as we have annihilated other barbarous cultures before.

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While I am not one to think of annihilating a culture, I am very much in favor of calling it out for what it is and does (not a thousand years ago but now, today) and letting people decide. Christianity has its own issues, but wholesale extermination of those who refuse to acknowledge God is not one of them.

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It’s not a ‘lens’ it’s an absolute wrong what they did. If you have no absolutes, you have no ability to distinguish right from wrong. Because you have to standard. It’s not relative. Western culture is historically Judeo-Christian- biblical morals and ethics as the absolute (not now, now it’s secular Leftism). The Muslim faith and tradition is not moral as an absolute based on history and its own writings. It is, from the basis of Christianity, demonic.

While some try to soften it, the readers of the consistent Muslim text are designed to concur the world through violence. It’s that simple. That’s why you can’t cartoon Mahmoud without insane rage and violence, and the Gaza people are not welcomed by their own Arab brethren for 70 years - they’re even more radical and violent. The facts and history and their own charter make it plain to see. And as disgusting to me is the Leftists women who are silent.... they are those young women that were tortured and inhumanely and evilly treated. And their charade of morality is shattered as the farce it is.

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Please tell us what "the beautiful parts are". From what I have learned & read, if there are any I can't find them. Which is obeyed more zealously by Muslims the Hadiths or the Koran?

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You've read the Koran and found nothing beautiful? Why would I cast pearls before swine? You are like a blind person who says all art is ugly. Why would I bother arguing with you?

I dislike a lot of practices performed by some muslims. Unlike you I do not find pleasure in recounting them. I can stand for human rights while still giving hateful bigotry a wide berth.

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Oink oink . Huh? What I am not recounting them? You must have me confused with someone else.

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You enjoy your hatred of muslims too much for my taste. The Koran is beautiful poetry. In the context of his time Mohammed pushed for rights and equality for woman. Muslims are known for their hospitality and their aid to the poor. Islam requires a deep commitment to worship and your community. I have personally known a couple of wonderful Muslim woman, beautiful and inteliigent and proud defenders of their faith.

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Push for rights of women by marrying a 9 yr old girl, really! If their aid to the poor is so great, why are there so many poor Muslims their countries? Ooohh hatred.....strong word there. Actions speak louder than words and the actions of Muslims speak quite loudly.

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Cow poop has good nutrients. I don’t play in it.

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Cutting off a clitoris is fucking insane. Islam is insane.

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Totalitarians - and Islam is fundamentally totalitarian - loathe women as women own power.

What these “men” (scare quotes definitely of Western culture) did differs only in degree from what Western progressives do daily with the constant celebration of abortion and gays and lesbians and the brand-new assault on women that is trans.

The left - and all “multiculturalists”hate - women.

The most unfortunate part is that women refuse to recognize this and, by refusing, enable & excuse it. Which is why no “women’s” groups condemn it.

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Yes, exactly. And many women in the West, hate themselves. Womanhood is a 'weakness' they are told, and they need to be more 'masculine' in all aspects of their lives. The curse of feminism.

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And when a woman is attacked, who defends her a man. I betcha few of these feminists know how to defend themselves (ie. self defense training or (gasp) how to use a gun), and the leaders of fem movements have security who are men 😲😲😲

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Hmm, interesting, show me the part I missed where it's women who are committing these atrocities? The problem here, has been, and always will be, men - not the progressives and the trans and the left and the women's groups.....

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You seem unable or unwilling to follow the logic. Not surprised. Progressives, and Democrats in their current anti-democratic form, exist as political entities only due to the majority of women voting for them. If women voted in their own best interest instead of lockstep-D, trannies wouldn’t be an issue, nor would any of the other social pathologies infecting America.

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Nope, I'm following the evidence. And I'm an independent, I don't follow lockstep with anyone, I try to approach every issue with eyes wide open, but violence against women is almost never committed by women, that's inarguable.

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As long as 60% of women vote D, my point stands and yours is irrelevant. Violence against women is committed largely by the people decarcerated or not incarcerated - or here illegally to begin with - as a result of D policies. Policies, as I keep noting and you keep ignoring, that are the result of women voting for Ds.

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I want to avoid being a person who fits this quote: "most people do not listen with the intent to understand, they listen with the intent to reply." So, I think if we zoom all the way out on this issue we are in total agreement that these acts were atrocious. That's the key thing. From there if we zoom in just a little, I think I understand you are placing the blame for this violence not on the barbarians who perpetrated it, but ultimately on the policies that are in place, and these policies are leftist, and because Ds are elected mostly because of the 60% female vote, the female voting bloc is ultimately to blame? I'm just saying that I'm a person who places a lot of stock in personal responsibility, and I know that's often a pollyanna view of things, we can't all just decide to be good when we are faced with so much bad all the time, but still, the buck stops with me with each individual person who decided to rape, stab, shoot, or mutilate a woman (or all of them at once), for no other reason other than they had the physical power and a complete lack of disregard for human life. That level of personal depravity surpasses any policy shortcoming that could possibly exist. But, as I said above, agreeing on the biggest picture is really the crux of the matter, and I think we have that.

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Certainly men tend to act out this violence. But the violence is supported by leftist views, principally that once you have determined a group doesn't fit leftist "requirements" it is ok to abuse its members in ways that you would condemn if applied to other groups. Similarly wokeism has a poisonous doublethink that once you decide you are "nice" it is ok to be horrible to people who have different beliefs. I was a leftist. I still don't believe that money should run roughshod. The rich are rich with our help and should contribute. Besides the two views - identitarian and wokeist - above I am open to leftism in general.

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Yes, it would be helpful if our much-touted "progress" (or the "blessings of liberty" as some put it) actually were that.

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founding

Women (and men who love women) everywhere should take note. Hamas and those who support them do not have women’s freedom and interests at heart. It’s puzzling to me why so many younger, college aged adults in the US have been swayed by these deplorable ideologies. Hamas would wage the same type of destruction against the women here, if given the opportunity…no doubt. You are spot on in your analysis in this article of what drove the sexual torture and dehumanization of Israeli women on 10/7, and your ending sums it up best – “But Jewish is the adjective. Women is the noun.”

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and women who love women and men who love men should read up on what they are supporting

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Much less "Queers for Gaxa".

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The Queers for Gaza should go there and find out how long they are above ground. These people are so stupid and uninformed and ignorant that they don't even know how gays are condemned and killed in this part of the world.

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Agree.

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It’s so twisted that that exists

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It shows the power of indoctrination and the power of technology via social media to whip up a mob at will to do their bidding. Let me post an “I’ve been “jabbed” symbol, a Ukrainian flag, a “fill in the blank” ... to show my membership in the approved tribe.

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Incredible that people in the West are defending these monsters, to the point of saying the murder, rape and mutilation of Jewish girls and women didn't happen. Do you have wives and daughters? Or how about the women and gays and trans who actually are calling for the extermination of Israeli, have you ever lived under Sharia Law? You wouldn't last long. Every time an atrocity is raised that Hamas has done, these mentally afflicted westerners have to come back with some comparison to the crimes of the evil Jews--or rather, Zionists, because now there is an important distinction being made between Jews who allow themselves to be exterminated and those who dare to fight back. I guess Israel is the only nation on earth that, when it is repeatedly attacked, is condemned for defending itself. Yes, Hamas wanted to send a message to women, and it was a message inspired by religion, there's no other way to put it. Anyone with open eyes knows this to be true. They recorded their atrocities. They wanted the world to know and incredibly, people still defend them, saying they didn't do it--it's the Jews fault. A story as old as time; it's the woman's fault she got raped, she was asking for it, she is just a whore, she was tempting the men, the men couldn't help themselves. Shame on her! Shame on Israel! Let's teach them a lesson. Palestinians in Gaza were seen celebrating what Hamas did, parading the bodies through the streets, screaming Allah Akbar, praising God. I have written about this, having lived in Egypt for three years and getting out under dangerous circumstances during the pandemic, helping a woman escape from a mob of violent men.

Those who deny the truth are Jews haters. They just hate Jews, plain and simple. They would rather see Hamas win; a "government" that kills anyone who does not bow to fundamentalist Islam, than see Israel succeed, a democratic state (and yes, a flawed one, what else is new) where Jews, Christians, Bedouin, Arabs, gays, and people of all faiths, live, vote, succeed in government positions, as professors, scientists, doctors, lawyers, you name it. And yet, Israel is the evil one. The hypocrisy is astounding since any country can be picked apart and vilified in this manner, not least of all the United States. What's the obsession with Israel?

It's as if the filth fermenting for so long beneath the surface has finally come out. At last, people are free to express their true feelings toward Jews and it's unleashed a tidal wave. The question is why? Why so many Jew haters? The Lost Foreign Women of Luxor: https://khmezek.substack.com/p/tales-of-eclipse-the-lost-foreign; Captagon, the 'jihad' drug: https://khmezek.substack.com/p/captagon-the-jihad-drug; Hard Facts: From the River to the Sea: https://khmezek.substack.com/p/hard-facts-from-the-river-to-the

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Beautifully stated and absolutely true. Thank you, Karen Hunt!

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Let’s not agree that it happened. One of the main reasons I subscribe at Substack is because mainstream media especially including NYT have become lapdogs and mouthpieces for the Deep State which happens to include some parts of the Israeli government. The atrocities committed by the Israeli government over decades far exceed what might have happened on 10/07

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author

Okay, you are free to pretend it didn't happen

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What is wrong with people? Where is the humanity? Of course this happened. I am disgusted with half the planet.

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stupid sheep.

I heard one protestor say they are doing it for the "poor Hamazians"

imagine that.

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"Poor Hamazians" is the stupidest thing ever.

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I think the vax has twisted their brain? What else could explain it?

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What made them take a jab the government and corporations were mandating? That was pretty red flaggy to me. But some people just do as they are told and repeat what is popular at the moment. Never turns out well. Read “Wild Swans” if you have not yet.

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I read the stats online about possibility of death and was like HELL NO. Also, the exemption for Congress, NBA and Pfizer was kind of a red flag. DUH.

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Or look up Michael Nehls, The Indoctrinated Brain”

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Victim culture. The "poor Hamazians" are victims.

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Dec 29, 2023·edited Dec 30, 2023

Alex, thank you for this article, as difficult as it was to read. I, like many on this stack, distrust the legacy media. However, I give a significant amount of credence to your statement that you know and respect the author of this NYT piece. If I didn't give it this credence, what in the world am I doing wasting my time and money on your stack?? And as others here have said, the Times hates Israel. So for it to publish this says a lot. Even more compelling is the overwhelming amount of video evidence and eye witness testimony that I for one don't intend to pretend was some massive deep fake or grand conspiracy. Of course these atrocities happened. Of course they reflect a deep and abiding hatred of women. And of course women who fail to see this are fools, and those who see it, but fail to speak up, are cowards.

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That’s my take too. Thanks for articulating it so well.

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Btw. The Free Press is great to subscribe to, IMO.

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Well said!!

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Alex, apparently, psychopathy has become a contagion. Seems America has greenlighted Nazis to come out of the closet with gusto.

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“That radical Islamist culture is incompatible with Western society”. No, Islamist culture is incompatible with Western society.

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I’d like to believe that too. Yet we have Congress women that side with it. That sickens me. The world is so messed up. Makes me think Jesus could return any minute.

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Islamism is incompatible with humanism. It is regressive medievalism.

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Someone has a viewpoint different than yours (in not trusting the media) and they're "Nazis". Just stop.

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Dumb. Sometimes the word is used that way but antisemites are literal nazis. How is that complicated?

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You're saying Ricard is a Nazi? An antisemite? How do you know that? I don't think the US should be involved in Israel in this (or an other) conflict. Does that make me a Nazi?

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No, just naive

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May I suggest you learn how to detect spin in articles? That you come to know that some have spent their lives becoming actual journalists, with truth as lode star? That means years of study of history, politics, nations, of people and who is who, how and why they function, of a basic knowledge of much - technology, film, timing et al. Truth exists. It is certain the events reported and more happened on October 7. There is no ambiguity. None.

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Nobody has to trust the media, if one wanted to view the atrocities committed on 10/7 the videos were posted to Telegram

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Perhaps losing our niece to suicide after she learned the fate of her Israeli mother and sister is “ shaping my opinion”. . Brutally gang raped, the mother beaten and forced to witness her daughter suffer the same with the additional savagery of having a breast sliced off before both were shot in the face. Because they were Jewish. Our American Christian nephew, met his now deceased wife, Shani, while giving a lecture on treatment of pediatric cancer in Israel.She was a first year pediatric oncologist. They had a lovely home in S. Florida, we’re planning to start a family and she was so bereft, haunted and for whatever reason, guilt ridden over the loss of her mother and younger sister, she took her own life .Hamas is ideologically aligned with Nazism. Combined with warped death worshipping theological insanity and unbridled , insurmountable hatred… bloodlust.

The hatred, antisemitism and despicable effort to blame Israel is either ignorance or abhorrent.antisemitism tantamount to Nazi empathy. History does , in fact, repeat itself.

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I am so terribly sorry this happened to your family. I have heard this story from several people. Israel is after all so small, everyone is connected to someone else, either in Israel or elsewhere in the world. So many lives are now shuttered by this unspeakable horror. I am sorry...

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Good. We know where they are

are. Time to write the sequel to the movie Munich.

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Seems like you're saying Richard (or someone like him) - because he has a different opinion - should be tracked down and killed?

Do you even hear yourself? Calm down.

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Don't expect the rules of civil society to protect you after you flaunt them to the extreme. You don't think Mossad is all over these conversations? I have no problem with words. I do have problems with aiding and abetting psychopaths. And I am not alone. What do you think Never Again means? It's not punters like us on social media. Enjoy but be very very careful. Alll of the time

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So yes, you do think they should be tracked down and killed for a differing opinion. I sincerely believe you need some help and I pray that you get it.

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I reserve the right to follow my own methods and reach my own conclusions. Decades have shown me MSM is but a propaganda organ of the powers that be, which happens to include the Tel Aviv government. I support an organization called Jewish Voices for Peace. They oppose Netanyahu and related savages in the Israeli government.

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They video'd themselves committing a huge amount of these atrocities. "Jewish Voices for Peace"? Really? You need to watch these videos. As to your statement "The atrocities committed by the Israeli government over decades far exceed what might have happened on 10/07", no, actually. Sadistic racist murderers raised a generation of their children to also be sadistic racist murderers, and then those kids committed these atrocities on 10/7. The only real justifications for their actions are their strongly held belief that a Jewish state should not exist and/or that their grandparents had some land forcibly taken from them in 1948 and 1967 in the midst of wars started by Muslims. Gaza was not a prison. It was a place where people could and did live happy lives if they wanted to. Their own irrational hatred for Israeli Jews was the only prison they experienced there. It was a prison of their own making. What you call "decades of atrocities" were actually decades of Israelis trying to defend themselves from suicide bombings, rocket attacks and precisely what Hamas did on 10/7.

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True History

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Dec 30, 2023·edited Dec 30, 2023

Jewish Voice for Peace is a radical anti-Zionist organization that denies Israel's right to exist. Their main platform is that nearly every ill in the world, every problem is blamed on Israel, or United States, or both. Their malignant ideology has nothing to do with Netanyahu, or any democratically elected government of Israel, nothing to do with territories, nothing to do with Jewish history. JVP reflects the ideology of Noam Chomsky and other self-hating Jews who reject Israel on principle. Like Hamas, JVP, Chomsky, Fenkelstein, and a bunch of others, have done irreparable damage to destroy Israel's moral image. Many Jewish liberals became desperate to escape from the shadow of Israel's alleged misdeeds and found a way to do so by joining other members of the left in blaming Israeli sins for Arab violence. Israel's Jewish accusers have played a crucial and disproportionate role in the current upsurge of antisemitism precisely because they speak as Jews. Many JVP members are not Jewish, but many are. In short, Robert, you are entitled to your methods and conclusions, but if you side with JVP, you are not a friend to Jews or Israel, and we should interpret your views as such.

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The facts are facts. You are not entitled to your own facts. Your emotions are your domain.

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It is facts that are in question, and given the significant evidence showing the government knew this was coming, allowed it to happen and even killed numbers of Israeli citizens, and know the mendacity of the Israeli government, I reserve the right to be highly skeptical of the story.

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You are a sad, untruthful human to deny what happened in light of the mountain of evidence all provided by the Hamas videos. Do your eyes lie to you? Have you spoken to survivors of that horrific day or those that picked up the remains of those burned alive?

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I bet you deny the Holocaust, too.

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Yes, every single bad event in history the Governments knew it was coming and let it happen. Pearl Harbor, 911, this attack... it’s all part of the plan?

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Yes, but Richard has facts too.

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He does not have facts, even basic facts of history. He knows conspiracies...not the same.

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So you support George Soros? Who do you think funds that group? Sad you can’t differentiate between barbarians and innocent. You think Jew hate is new? That we need the msm to know this happened when the monsters filmed it? You are sad. The organization you claim to support a nihilistic trash heap funded by billionaires who hate you too!

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Muslims (non-Arabs) did the same thing when they invaded the Chechen schoolhouse some dozen years ago. Raping while murdering while shouting “Allahu Ackbar”.

Not women but children that time. The last time I looked 14 million Jews had won 165 Nobel prizes; 1.2 Billion Muslims had won 10 or

so. (Not including Arafat who was robbed of his 1990 Physics Nobel for his invention of The Baby Bomb).

Maybe it’s something they are reading!?

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I remember that Besland schoolhouse siege, when Islamist Chechens took over a thousand people hostages, most of them were children. This is their modus operandi.

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Alex, really? You could have responded to his points.

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Dec 29, 2023·edited Dec 29, 2023

Perhaps he's wisely ignoring the trolls

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I don't see any trolling here.

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Alex owes no further comment to anyone, and that includes any occurrences prior to the hell that was unleashed on 10/7.

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My 3 cents:

Alex did respond but why would he engage further? I have my own issues with Jews in general as they whine too much about their losses in WWII. 6 million Poles died in WWII. Half of them may have been Jewish but many non-Jew Poles have died in the same concentration camps side by side with their Jewish neighbors. Why are we only talking about Jewish Holocaust?

But, putting this aside-why would we not believe that Hamas had done what NYT described? Hamas and many radical Muslims are worse than rabid dogs and we should treat them as such.

On a sidenote, I just listened to a conversation between Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson. I have always had doubts about Harris's intellect so when he equates current muslim ideology and contemporary Christianity, Harris looks like the fool I think he is. So is Richard ^

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Agree. The word to describe Hamas is nothing short of savage.

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I tend to regard the NYT with skepticism. I40 Christians were massacred in Africa this past week, but since it doesn't fit the Zionist narrative, they ignore it. Hence, Richards POV on this topic.

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Dec 29, 2023·edited Dec 29, 2023

but all the MSM are ignoring that. and it's not the first recent Christian massacre in Nigeria. I'm also skeptical of NYT. and the MSM but the videos...

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He has no real point. Just justification. He is smart to hide behind anonymity. Rape and torture are the worst crimes and both participants and justifiers are scum. Go ahead. Post your address Richard.

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Incredible that people in the West are defending these monsters, to the point of saying the murder, rape and mutilation of Jewish girls and women didn't happen. Do you have wives and daughters? Or how about the women and gays and trans who actually are calling for the extermination of Israeli, have you ever lived under Sharia Law? You wouldn't last long. Every time an atrocity is raised that Hamas has done, these mentally afflicted westerners have to come back with some comparison to the crimes of the evil Jews--or rather, Zionists, because now there is an important distinction being made between Jews who allow themselves to be exterminated and those who dare to fight back. I guess Israel is the only nation on earth that, when it is repeatedly attacked, is condemned for defending itself. Yes, Hamas wanted to send a message to women, and it was a message inspired by religion, there's no other way to put it. Anyone with open eyes knows this to be true. They recorded their atrocities. They wanted the world to know and incredibly, people still defend them, saying they didn't do it--it's the Jews fault. A story as old as time; it's the woman's fault she got raped, she was asking for it, she is just a whore, she was tempting the men, the men couldn't help themselves. Shame on her! Shame on Israel! Let's teach them a lesson. Palestinians in Gaza were seen celebrating what Hamas did, parading the bodies through the streets, screaming Allah Akbar, praising God. I have written about this, having lived in Egypt for three years and getting out under dangerous circumstances during the pandemic, helping a woman escape from a mob of violent men.

Those who deny the truth are Jews haters. They just hate Jews, plain and simple. They would rather see Hamas win; a "government" that kills anyone who does not bow to fundamentalist Islam, than see Israel succeed, a democratic state (and yes, a flawed one, what else is new) where Jews, Christians, Bedouin, Arabs, gays, and people of all faiths, live, vote, succeed in government positions, as professors, scientists, doctors, lawyers, you name it. And yet, Israel is the evil one. The hypocrisy is astounding since any country can be picked apart and vilified in this manner, not least of all the United States. What's the obsession with Israel?

It's as if the filth fermenting for so long beneath the surface has finally come out. At last, people are free to express their true feelings toward Jews and it's unleashed a tidal wave. The question is why? Why so many Jew haters? The Lost Foreign Women of Luxor https://khmezek.substack.com/p/tales-of-eclipse-the-lost-foreign; Captagon, the 'jihad' drug: https://khmezek.substack.com/p/captagon-the-jihad-drug; Hard Facts: From the River to the Sea: https://khmezek.substack.com/p/hard-facts-from-the-river-to-the

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Just like you, Alex, ignore the glaring fact that Hamas’ leaders live unmolested at the Four Seasons Qatar, not in Gaza.

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Alex ... what do you think about the story after a lot of the claims in it have been debunked by other journalists (Max Blumenthal from the Grayzone). The family of Gal Abduah says they were manipulated by the NYT and are highly skeptical she was raped and have text messages to confirm their suspiciousness ? Is this Journalistic malpractice in your opinion?

https://thegrayzone.com/2024/01/10/questions-nyt-hamas-rape-report/

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Provide some examples of atrocities committed by Israel that measures up to what was inflicted on 10/07 to the Israelis. I have seen nothing that even comes close to what Hamas did on 10/07. From what I have seen Israel goes out of its way to prevent needless civilian injury or death. What Hamas did was intentionally target civilians.

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hamas has harmed the people of Gaza since 2006 and been frightening and indoctrinating them all along.

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Pretty much the entire history of that region since 1948 documents the savagery of the Israeli government. Ike spoke out against the crimes of the Ben Gurion government way back when, and that government backed down. Please note I distinguish between any nation of people and their governments.

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No you don't since you justify rape of civilians

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No - he wouldn’t agree that they happened. In so many words - and he will accuse me of “putting words into his mouth,” he denies any of this happened, and besides, what Israel has done for decades is far far more egregious. Dude isn’t fit to be a spittoon in a saloon.

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I don't see where he's justifying rape of civilians. Perhaps you can show me.

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💥

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"Pretty much the entire history..." Lame answer Richard. As bad as "everybody just knows...." or "do your own search..." The piddly little answer you did give reaches back to when Eisenhauer was president. He left office over 60 years ago.

If you can't cite specific examples, you don't have any.

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Savagery of the Israeli government? So the problem is not with Hamas, is that right? Hamas is not, as it freely admits, party to the effort to create a Palestinian state alongside Israel. It has different goals about which it is quite open. Since the mid-1990s, more than any other player, Hamas has destroyed the Israeli left, swayed moderate Israelis against territorial withdrawals, and buried the chances of a two-state compromise. The Hamas charter calls not just for Israel’s destruction but for the murder of all Jews, blaming Jews for engineering the French and Russian revolutions and both world wars. It should also be noted that peace and prosperity, as well as basic human rights, illude citizens of most Arab countries where there are no Jews and yet where violence is omnipresent.

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"Savagery of the Israeli government? So the problem is not with Hamas, is that right?"

This is the part I don't understand: isn't it possible that both are true?

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The war is conducted legitimately, following the rules of warfare. I know it is hard for you to grasp but this war can only end when one side loses and knows it has lost, and the other side wins and knows it has won. This war can be over immediately if Hamas releases hostages it took in a barbaric action of genocide and puts down its weapons. Hamas hasn’t done so as it doesn’t give a shit about Palestinians or two-state peace.

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I don't agree with all of this but you've given me food for thought.

However, why on earth throw in the "I know it is hard for you to grasp"?

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Richard, it's hopeless :(

We're missing, in this thread, the ability to recognize that two horrible things can both be true.

Savagery and displacement following 1948 AND the terror of suicide bombers.

A people courageously rebuilding after the devastation of the Holocaust AND the industrial military complex gaining a permanent source of revenue, which shifts incentives in a horrible way.

Military occupation by Israel AND terrorist actions.

For many people on here, recognizing one is tantamount to condoning the other.

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Yes, the war is a terrible thing, but what do you mean "savagery and displacement following 1948"? Israel accepted the UN partition of its historic homeland into two parts - one for the Jews and one for the Arabs. Arabs rejected the partition and attacked Israel - the Jews did not initiate the war. In the sphere of public opinion, it is accepted that the conflict is “Israeli-Palestinian,” meaning that it is a conflict taking place on land that Israel controls, which amounts to 0.2 % of the Arab world. Israel is the only place in the Middle East where Jews are a majority and Arabs a minority. However, and as the current war clearly demonstrates, it is a “Jewish-Arab” conflict - a conflict between the 7 million Jews of Israel and 300 million Arabs in surrounding countries. If we take into account the enmity of Muslim states like Iran and Turkey, it amounts to 1 billion Muslims worldwide. So all your arguments about "industrial military complex" is nonsense: This is the conflict that has been playing out in different forms for centuries, before Israel existed, before Israel captured the Palestinian territories of Gaza and the West Bank, and before the term “Palestinian” was even invented. The Jews were a second-class inhabitants in most Arab countries and got expelled from nearly all of them with the UN partition of 1947 and the forming of Israel. Currently, more than a million people of Afghani origins are forcefully expelled from Pakistan; most of them were born in Pakistan and lived there all their lives. Are we expecting major protests and deranged individuals blocking traffic to O'Hare or LAX airports? Of course not.

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I don't trust the info we're getting, but even if the NYT report is accurate, you're looking at specific (and horrific outbursts) in the context of the subjugation of an entire population.

Israel can (and does) control the flow of water, food, energy, medicine and people in and out of Gaza. I can't imagine a better set-up for stoking pure hatred and cultivating terrorism.

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they don't control it so much as provide it, while Hamas takes the water pipes Israel installs and makes weapons. There are proud Hamas videos.

Five times, five, the two separate nation option has been rejected officially and summarily.

They don't want it. They want genocide. Read a history book.

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Perhaps educate yourself beyond what you see on CNN. There has never actually been a race of “Palestinians” it is a name invented by Arafat to legitimize his people. They are Arab bedouins that even the rest of the Arab countries want nothing to do with. The last time the Jordanians allowed them to settle within their borders they tried to assassinate the King and overthrow the Jordanian government. The “West Bank” is more accurately Judea and Samaria, traditional Jewish homelands. The vast majority of these bedouins fully support Hamas in every way and raise their children in the traditional Islamist way of hating Jews. Instead of spending the billions in aid they’ve received on improving their living conditions they spent it on tunnels and bombs. The best thing Israel can do at this point is level the place and eliminate the threat

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Excellent points.

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I don't watch CNN. Am not a fan of any mainstream media.

I'm curious to know more about the billions in aid. I know that most IMF and WB aid is funneled through large contracts and never reach the people it's supposed to help so it's not really "aid;" more like lucrative deals for lobbyists. I don't know much about how humanitarian aid to Palestinians works - who administers it, what the conditions are - though my guess is that it's similar.

Why would someone need to "legitimize" a people?

And where do you get your information? Is there any information you could see that would lead to you moderating your position? Why do you trust your sources?

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Let me ask you. Where do you think Hamas got the money to build an entire complex out of concrete and steel, complete with lighting, ventilation etc? The reason the money you mentioned never reaches the people is because Hamas diverted it to the building of tunnels and weapons, all with the help of Iran. As for my sources it is all readily available information and not even disputed as to wheee the money went. As for the Bedouin’s support for Hamas again readily available and widely reported recent surveys of the people in Judea and Samaria. If you want to know what the people in the Middle East are saying I’d recommend MEMRI (Middle East Media Research Institute) they translate every broadcast speech etc by Imams and political leaders in the region

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yes

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Id say rape and torture of civilians stokes hatred pretty well. By your logic the Gazans get what they deserve. But in fact Israel has tried to negotiate a better solution and gazans only sabotage any opportunity.

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I don't think anyone deserves rape or torture :(

It's terrible when done by Hamas, terrible when done by the IDF

I know that the history is long and complex and I'm not justifying any military or terrorist actions. I'm just noting that the current system is untenable and likely to lead to ever-increasing violence.

Unfortunately there are too many people who benefit enormously from war.

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To be clear - The rape & torture was done by Hamas not IDF. The history isn’t really that complicated- Hamas/Palestine wants to wipe Israel, their neighbor off the map. Israel is protecting itself, & has no choice but to eliminate Hamas if it wants to survive. To do anything less now would seal the fate of Israel’s children, therefore Israel. The fact that so many people benefit from war is true, but a separate discussion.

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Dec 30, 2023·edited Dec 30, 2023

You think that in this conflict there hasn't been torture by the IDF, and you have the impression that only Hamas/Palestinian want to eliminate their enemy and consolidate control over the territory.

What are your sources for information? I ask this with zero snark. I think that a lot of the disagreement we see on this page is not about the horrors of rape and torture - we all agree about that - but about what the facts of the situation are. Why did the NYT source change his story so many times? Why are some people seeing so many stories of IDF torture and others not? (Are some of the stories fake/AI? All of them? How do we know what is real?)

And most generally, who benefits from the conflict? And what lengths would they go to to keep us all frothing at the mouth for war?

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Now do the USS Liberty.

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Here's a start https://euromedmonitor.org/en/country/1

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The fact they’re calling Israel’s legal response “genocide,” illustrates just how believable the reposting is at this site.

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It's not legal to demolish whole residential neighborhoods and hospitals, killing tens of thousands of civilians, mostly children (many bodies still buried under ruble), nor to summarily execute unarmed civilians--IDF even killed 3 of the Israeli hostages who were unarmed and waving white flags. That an entire ethnic group is being targeted and slaughtered daily for nearly three months, denied food, water and medicine--not legal.

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Dec 29, 2023·edited Dec 29, 2023

they are warned to evacuate before bombings

they are provided food, water and medicine.

they started a war

and in a tradition begun with Arafat, the weapons and terrorists are in the schools and hospitals

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You can choose to believe Israeli propaganda, supported by US Gov't, but no warnings are given anymore (even if they were, where would people go? bombs are falling everywhere!), and relief supplies are blocked by IDF from entering Gaza with only minuscule exceptions. Seriously not legal.

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Ignoramus.

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This organization you use as your trustworthy source of information has not said one thing, not one single sentence about the October 6 attack by Hamas. If they are human rights organization, they must remain apolitical. They are anything but: "Israeli government aims to redefine situation in Occupied Palestinian Territory as religious conflict." This is how they covered the October 6 massacre. Their "women's rights" page is to die for - there are five anemic sources, with the last one made in December 2022. Considering what was happening in Iran this past year, that is all anyone ever needs to know about this "human rights" hogwash.

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Alex was pointing out the depravity towards women. "atrocities committed by the Israeli government over decades far exceed" .... AFAIK there is ZERO evidence of any Isrealis committing anything like that to Palestinians.

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Dec 29, 2023·edited Dec 29, 2023

and Hamas made videos to celebrate it

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Yes, they were proud of it, & memorialized it proudly for all time hoping the world would watch. So sick - what did they think the reaction would be?

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The piece wasn't about the atrocities committed by the Israeli government. No comparison you draw can diminish the horror of what's been described. Attempting to rank horrific atrocities is perverse at best and probably sadistic and cruel in-and-if-itself.

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Given what we know about propaganda techniques, what if ‘what has been described here’ is fiction ? Bill Casey of CIA in 1981 commented that “when everything the American people believe is false we will know the success of our misinformation efforts “. What if (like so many before it) the NYT story is false?

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What has been described here is NOT fiction. Israel has been burying her dead since 10-7. The “ proof” the deniers have been demanding has been carefully documented by teams of forensic pathologists from Israel and other countries. There are thousands of hours of video footage. There are eye witness accounts of survivors of the massacre. For rabid Jew haters there will never be adequate proof. This Islamist ideology hates Jews the most but Christians , gays and other “ infidels” are close behind. What starts with the Jews does not end with us.

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Your point would be more effective if Hamas themselves weren’t promoting and celebrating their own barbarism.

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But why would the NYT, shill of the MSM, say anything that would so grotesquely describe the savagery of Hamas's behavior?

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The woke NYTimes hates Israel , that’s what makes this report so damning .

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Dec 29, 2023·edited Dec 29, 2023

Exactly. And believable.

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I suspect the reporter that Alex vouches for, is taking much hate from his woke NY Times co workers. Bravo to him for his brave reporting. We should let him know that if he leaves the Times, we’ll subscribe to his Substack ! The NYTimes has become a rag sheet and mouthpiece for the DEI -CRT woke fringe left.

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excellent point

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Sorry Richard, it did happen and until all the terrorists are eradicated from the face of the earth this will continue. I'm still puzzled at how Israeli intelligence missed this, yet an absolute and complete destruction of radical Islam is the only solution. This has to be akin to dropping bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

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Dec 30, 2023·edited Dec 30, 2023

“I'm still puzzled at how Israeli intelligence missed this…”

I wouldn’t make that a statement of fact. It would be more accurate to say that the current Israeli govt “claims that their intelligence services missed” the incoming attack. In other words I find it more probable that Hamas was allowed to attack. And that the Israeli govt sacrificed its own according to its previously established principles regarding terrorists and they can now capitalize on the barbarity of Hamas to wipe them out with the tacit approval of surrounding Arab nations. That is the most sensible explanation IMOH.

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Agree. I have no particular reason to believe what the NYT prints. Alex vouching for this particular reporter lends some credibility to the article, but the incentive to build support for a war is powerful.

That doesn't mean that atrocities didn't happen, obviously; just that I wouldn't use NYT as a reference point.

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What do you use for your reference points and news consumption? What sources do you trust?

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That's kind of my point - it's very hard to know who to trust. My best attempt is to listen to as many different sources as I can and try to piece together something that makes sense.

One of my questions is to figure out what people might have to gain from pushing a particular narrative.

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The problem here is that you make statements or pose questions that illustrate that you have a very tenuous grasp of history or policies that led to the current conflict and can't directly reference ANY sources but are displeased with those who are "pushing a particular narrative." Then your argument becomes - Hamas is bad but IDF is also bad. Hmm.

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Dec 31, 2023·edited Dec 31, 2023

My argument is not "Hamas is bad but IDF is also bad."

My argument is that in our rage against Hamas - justified, from what I can see - we construct a good/bad narrative that blinds us to a more complete and much messier picture. For instance, from what you've written, you have a very firm grasp of a very narrow framing of history or policies.* I don't mean this as an attack. You've clearly thought a lot about this and know some facts very well.

I'm not advocating for one of the "sides;" I'm advocating for a conversation that isn't driven by rage. I'm afraid that in our (very human) eagerness to pick a side, we will end up supporting a war that leads to more devastation than we can imagine.

Re conflicting voices: I listen to Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald, Alec Zeck and Alex Berenson. Also Whitney Webb. It's worth hearing what Dave Smith has to say because he's free of the usual Rep/Dem nonsense, and there's a recent DarkHorse podcast that's on my list. I've read rousing books on the founding of Israel and I could make an impassioned speech on the courage and tenacity of the Jews who made that happen - but I've also watched the film Israelism (which I wouldn't recommend as any kind of an unbiased documentary, but which gave me some new information). I've seen footage of IDF soldiers bragging about killing Gazan children at least some of which I assume are doctored, but that also makes me wonder about the videos of Hamas. Honestly, it kind of sucks to listen to conflicting voices. I'm much more comfortable in outrage when I'm sure I'm right.

Does that more fully answer your question? I'm not advocating for Hamas and I'm definitely not anti-Jewish. I'm just afraid that we'll let our rage lead us head-first into more conflicts and more bloodshed, and it seems clear to me that there are a small group of people in the world - those who sell weapons, the leaders of Hamas, probably some politicians in Israel - who benefit enormously from ongoing conflict and hatred.

In any case, Julia, I appreciate the thoughtfulness and time you've put into your replies.

*as just one example, you said that Israel accepted the UN partition in 1948 but the Arabs didn't. Israel's very founding displaced half a million or so Arabs, who - naturally - didn't accept what they saw as a random and unfair partition of the land.

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It is unfortunate that hundreds of thousands of Arabs were displaced upon the founding of Israel, but it is also not uncommon in human history. They were assured by the Arab leaders to move out of harm's way during violence that the Jews did not initiate. At the same time, Jews were expelled from most Muslim countries where have lived for generations. Was anyone held responsible for the atrocities committed against them? I am not advocate for rage or retribution, but sometimes, unfortunately, a war has to be fought to ensure, hopefully, a longer-lasting peace.

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I do not agree with your "research", but for argument's sake let's play along for a minute and assume you are correct and that Israel did indeed commit attrocities in Gaza. So basically your argument is that assaulting, raping and torturing women is excusable as long as it happens the "correct context"? What an utterly barbarian and depraved position.

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I have to agree that I can't take most reports drawn up by the military industrial complex to support manufactured outrage at face value. First it's beheaded babies now whatever. It's not about pretending things didn't happen. It's just reserving the right to healthy skepticism and understanding the whole controlled narrative thing, getting really preachy about how one offense is more gruesome and horrible than another so justifies... murder. Sorry, Alex, even if we agree that it happened, no, we don't have to agree on what further implications that means about a group that may have done that vs a group that harbors an inordinate amount of known sex offenders. No, no no no silly. Ridiculous, Absurd, stop pandering for the war machine. It cheapens this blog.

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what is it about you and jewish sex offenders?

where did you get this information.

And remember that comparing it to other countries in which sex crimes are not prosecuted, doesn't work

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Missed the point. Find yourself a NYP reporter to refute that Israel harbors known sex offenders. I’ll wait.

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Richard- you are a buffoonish character or an antisemite or both but you have to select from that list because you are undoubtedly one or both of those. Don’t be a contrarian for contrarian’s sake. Diligently, not selectively, sort through information from all sources then make a determination. You don’t need Alex’s analysis nor that of the NYT on this topic. Go deeper. But a buffoon or antisemite could find this too difficult given the current subject matter

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This guy not the sharpest tool in the shed and most likely a dem troll

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Richard is a fool: everyone knows UFOs and the Illuminati committed the attacks...

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Seriously? Give us one example of atrocities Israel as you say has committed that even comes close to the Oct 7th massacre. Just one and back it up with resources. Go ahead-back up your false narrative.

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I not buying your position on this atrocity. No 1. It did happen. No 2 Islamist have continually attacked Israel. When they rightfully retaliate you label their response as atrocity. I suppose you believe 9/11 did not happen or the Holocaust did not happen in Germany. And that the U. S. response to 9/11 was an atrocity and the response of the Allies against Germany was an atrocity also. BTW. The NYT totally ignored what was happening to the Jewish people in Hitler's Germany. I agree with only the NYT and mainstream media being lapdogs and mouthpieces for the Deep State and the Democrats (I think I repeated myself).

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so the videos I saw were made up by AI? is that what you are saying?

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Richard, youre spot on with your comment. I made a similar comment on the post earlier in the year and many subscribers agree with the stance you and I have taken:

https://open.substack.com/pub/alexberenson/p/it-is-not-too-early-to-discuss-israels?r=19qd1i&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post

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Franklin, I read your comment from Oct. It's possible that the difference in support for it vs what we see here today is that many subscribers have left (or just stopped reading) since Alex seems to take media reports at face value now. This has become an echo chamber of those who can't hear those questions you raised.

I don't understand how we can go from "wow, I guess the media lie about just about everything" to " well, this is so upsetting that they're obviously not lying about this!"

I know that's an oversimplification but anyone questioning sources on here is getting attacked, and the raging self-righteousness (never a good sign...) is palpable. Being upset about something doesn't make your sources reliable.

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Hey Jasmine! Thanks for your comment! So on the question on whether to trust the media here, or the media is lying here, I have a simple solution: Let's just stop watching the news altogether.

I've once watched a TedTalk on reasons to stop watching the news and I wrote about it on my substack here: https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/4-reasons-to-stop-watching-news-and

The biggest takeaway is that there's so many lies, truths, all mixed up and all that we have to ask ourselves, if we don't know what's going on...would we actually be better off? Studies show yes we would

Hoping you get a chance to read the article. Looking forward to your thoughts when time permits :)

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thank you, Franklin! Will read it now.

Most of my focus now is on building the future I want to see. You may enjoy Nostr if you're not on there already. You can create your own algorithms - not feeding into the craziness that is big tech - and the discourse is generally thoughtful and productive.

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Nice! Thanks for letting me know about Nostr -- I'm going to look into this more.

Regarding building the future you want to see, I will be publishing an article on exactly that on Jan 1, 2024 so be sure to stay tuned for that! :)

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Have you honestly looked at the mountains of evidence that it did happen? I agree with you about your suspicions about the Deep State and media but there really is such a thing as truth and reality, it is not just a construct. And I have seen NO evidence that Israeli soldiers and civilians have come anywhere close to the barbarity exhibited on 10/07.

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Alex, there is no question here. This was evil. And absolutely needs light after light brought to it. No question.

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❤️

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"By failing to speak out and press less radical Muslim leaders".... pointless IMO, because as you said earlier "radical Islamist culture is incompatible with Western society". Drop the "radical" - Islamic culture is fundamentally at odds with Western society.

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If there were indeed true moderate Muslim leaders, no one would have to “ press” them to speak out against these atrocities. Where the hell are they? There are a few brave Muslims on X that are speaking out against this barbaric ideology and it’s consequences. They get a lot of hate and are seen as traitors. Some are from the UAE . A few are in Israel and are gay, grateful that Israel is the ONLY place in the Middle East where they can live openly and are welcome.

In the USA we have the Hamas squad in Congress, cheering on these “ heroes “ of Palestine.? I only saw one Imam in this country express sorrow at the 10-7 atrocities( he was on a panel to mark the yartzeit of Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks which took place weeks after the massacre. Rabbi Lord Sacks was a giant intellect who reached out to all faiths in peace and love. I encourage people to find his brilliance on YouTube and his writings. No one should tolerate, or excuse the barbarians .

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And yet we have their supporters in our midst, cities, campuses,

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Dec 29, 2023·edited Dec 29, 2023

yep. and in this conversation

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I want to throw up. And so much rage. The rest of what I am feeling I can’t commit to words.

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The Palestinians are fed a diet of genocidal hatred of the West, Israel and Jews from birth and are taught to despise Western women. It is the same phenomenon that results in the rapes of women by Muslim immigrants un Europe.

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Yes...good points. The number of rapes of women in Europe is staggering, especially in Sweden.

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The New York Times has been anti Israel since 10-7. That this piece came out in the NYTimes must have been a real debate in the woke NYT offices. See the James Bennet article last week in the Economist. These despicable atrocities happened and the perpetrators filmed it on their Go Pros , and were-are proud of their revolting actions. Many civilian Gazans participated and many more danced and celebrated back in Gaza. Israel will not ever allow this again.

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Didn’t the NYT hide the holocaust too? Haven’t they been antisemitic for decades? Despite their ownership?

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Hamas and by default most of the Palestinians are part of the uncivilized world. Whether you agree or disagree with Zion, Israel is part of the civilized world. All these morons marching in the streets for Palestine should be sent to the uncivilized world to live out their days. This war is nothing more than civilized vs uncivilized and if you are find yourself on the side of Palestine you have no place in a civilized world.

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Barbarians might be too gentle of a description for these terrorists.

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Thank you, Mr. Berenson, for speaking the hard truth. Too many try to whitewash the atrocities and far too many try and ignore the harsh reality that you so poignantly post on your Unreported Truths site. Thank you for posting this particular piece.

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I have no words. The most powerful post I have read in years. 🙏

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This has nothing to do with rage in the western sense. Forced sex with women of war booty (the Koranic phrase, “that which your right hand possessed,”) is permitted and expected. Mass rape has been a feature of Jihad in Kashmir, Pakistan, and, most well known, in ISIS.

The mutilation was also typical of ISIS and we should take them at their word that it is a religious injunction.

Of course, there can be no peace with a civilization that indulges such ritual savagery. The choices for Gaza remain post-war Berlin and denazification or Carthage and expulsion. The West Bank, with its slightly more subtle double dealing on both sides, must be separated from Gaza and can be dealt with at leisure.

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I don't think there was rage, from the videos it was more like "Look!! Look at how we're humiliating her to death!" exultation

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