I don't have the answer, but I plan to keep coming back to the question. The sudden demographic collapse of advanced societies is the defining issue of our time.
We're literally telling young people that the world is going to end and they're personally responsible -- OF COURSE they aren't interested in bringing children into this world.
This isn't the fault of the children, it's the fault of the people who are scaring the children to death nonstop for their entire childhoods.
The climate cult and its alarmist propaganda are largely to blame. By their lights, climate change is an apocalyptic danger and “billions will die” in the next couple of decades. The truth, however, is that there’s no scientific basis for any claim of climate apocalypse. In fact, every major environmental trend is improving.
I am not the one to discuss my thought in depth, as I am not religious and am childless. Please explore the lack of belief today in the true meaning of marriage, that two become one, and that combination produces family, children, and expands and futures society.
Good point. I'm childless but religious and I definitely think it's that we've lost hold of the idea that it's natural to want to be fruitful and multiply. We no longer view children as part and parcel of marriage, its purpose, its normal state. And if we do, the number of children is restricted to a token one or two.
Children, marriage, and family are now viewed from an extrinsic perspective, as in will it work? What will it do for me? Will I be happy if I do this? In the past, we knew children, marriage, and family were what gave life meaning and joy. Going secular as a society did us no favors. Everything now has a price, almost especially human beings, and it's quite low.
Younger generations are selfish. They'd rather spend their time and resources on themselves. Just look at social media, most posts are about showing off lifestyles, declaring pronouns and "me time". It's all about them. Having kids requires sacrifices.
All true. The culture and perhaps their home environment have failed them, and the result is a stubborn hold on putting themselves first even to the point of impoverishing their lives, as we see all the time. You mention several of those results. The irony is that when we sacrifice ourselves we gain so much more at a much deeper level.
I have 5 kids. Started in 1990 and ended in 2003. In the beginning of my journey as a mom, all the other moms stayed home like me. It was hard work raising the kids. Selfless work with payoffs, but let’s face it the day to day grind of being an unpaid, looked down upon by society maid and laundress probably does not sound appealing to many. An interesting shift happened in those years. Many of the moms went back to work. Many had to to maintain their lifestyle. Social media made doing so the highest priority. There was no internet in 1990. Many had to just to get by. I cooked for neighborhood kids and watched their kids all day, because they hated the Nannie’s their parents hired. By my last kid we went from parents fighting over who got to be the room mother, to having to be the room mother and then having to do every field trip and party because there were no room mothers. My oldest is 33 and my youngest is 20. I’m so happy I have them all in my life. They are my friends and my social life and my joy. I find it so sad and I am utterly devastated for what these young people are missing out on. We now have companies and schools with big bloated staff, all paid less because there are so many workers in the field. When I was in high school there was 1 principal and a few deans for 3000 kids. I probably sound uber sexist, but I enjoyed those sloppy selfless years like no other time. If I could go back, those are the years I would relive. I had a great high paying job til I was 32. At 60 I went back to work and am still working at 66, so I’m not anti working. But many women (and therefore men) are missing out on what I consider to be my greatest achievement as a human being: raising humans to be good people. There is a lot of pressure, and I don’t say these words in judgement. I just feel so sad for what people are missing out on. Being a parent made me into a better person. Sacrifice is ultimately a good thing for people. It makes us better in every way
I am a 60-something 😉 with 18-23 year olds. So we have a lot of overlap. But it must be very interesting to have a household that spans “late millennials” to smack-dap GenZ.
Anyway, I’ve spent my fair share of time with those (ethnic) nannies at the playground. The thing working women seldom seem honest about is that their “freedom” is absolutely contingent on other women doing their work. So much for consistent feminism. Children don’t raise themselves. And housework falls on someone.
After the trials of 2 decades worth of parenting, I am very blessed by my kiddos.
What a wonderful description of the joys (and work and pain) of motherhood. Your last three sentences highlight the personal and societal benefits of parenthood.
At least then it was not nearly as political. Common sense said pick up trash when you see it. Respect life in general as in wildlife and terrain, but look what climate change narrative means today. Hijacked just like science
Good thing nobody, especially smart doctors, read these journals anymore. The subject of climate as a health concern is almost funny. Of course it’s important, but maybe let’s start by stopping the constant airplane chemtrails that are raining down on all our cities and farmlands. It also includes the bio-engineering of weather by purposely creating extreme heat in areas, ruining crops, and turning around and blaming climate change.
Weapons & aerosolized metals are used to create fake “ wildfire” apocalyptic scenarios that again are used as negative climate change narratives. It’s time to tell the “climate & crisis” script writers that we aren’t buying it.
Of course, the young & dumb still do but maybe there’s still hope for them?
Things will get real for them when they have to put their video games down because of rolling blackouts. Or food shortages might force our teens & college kids to get jobs to
( gasp!) help the family unit. That will be a productive teaching moment. For the last few generations, life has been pretty easy. It may be awhile until it’s “ easy” again, if ever. First, we have to fight off the WHO- United Nation Reset Agenda. We can do it but it’s going to take some time.
I think this “laying the groundwork” article is best understood in the context of the WHO “treaty” written anonymously — although I suspect that Jeremy Farrar mainly authored it — that aims to allow almost unbridled international authority to this organization in the event of a “global health emergency” — which these faceless folks get to define.
Our kids had a module at school about the climate crisis..basically told the kids everything was f***ed...now this same school is organising trips of rich UES kids to go to Morocco to 'help' with the earthquake recovery...as if these hamptons visiting maid beckoning brats have anything at all to offer in the way of carpentry or masonry skill..so we add to polluting air travel to go do colleg app padding whilst telling them a couple years ago that same activity was leading us to our doom..
I absolutely agree that the climate fear-mongering is scaring and/or guilting young people away from parenthood. I fear, though, that personal selfishness is even more to blame. Having children is expensive, cuts into career, and transforms a woman’s body. Plus, the economy - it’s hard to start a family when your prospect of owning a home is bleak.
although I will say that my parents raised their 4 children in (rather minimal) rental square footage and produced 4 college graduates, inc an RN, a wealthy philanthropist, a oil industry manager & me — now I firmly believe in the value of homeownership, but it isn’t everything
Bingo! This is literally the number one thing I hear out of friends mouths, as rational for either having no children or stopping at 1. The fear that has been drilled into our generation about overpopulation and resource consumption is real.
A very close second is that life is far too good to introduce children into the mix. Having children later in life is nudging this one along. Why would I mess up a perfect, well put together life at 35 to have kids?
My wife and I had kids “late.” She was 39 and I 37 when our first was born. The 2nd one came along when we were 42 and 40. We are in our mid-50s now and staring down college for the oldest. If I had it to do over again I might have had kids when I was a bit younger but you take what life gives you. Plus, I wouldn’t have had some of the great memories that I was able to create before getting married and having kids.
Same. Had my first at 34 and 3rd at 40. Bike a career in my early years, traveled and had a great run. Having 3 kids has been far more rewarding. Being a bit older and settled, my wife and I raised wonderful young adults who are now great friends as well as our children. Sadly those who chose not to have children often regret it in their later years. My brother for one - he is preying his nieces and nephews take care of him as he ages. Good thing me and my other siblings kept the fire going and procreated so he won’t die a lonely man.
We have 3 kids 6 and under and I'm 43. Trying not to think about college yet! I like that we had kids later....it kind of feels like we are retired now, plus we did so much FUN stuff in our 20s and 30s.
I hear this all the time "Once I am established in my career...once I am ready to settle down...once we have traveled, made x dollars, bought a house..." They are waiting to grow up first, not realizing that it is doing the hard things that GROWS you up.
I heard from someone that marriage is now a capstone, not a milestone. You are right...they are waiting for everything to be "ready". No one is ever really ready for marriage, and certainly not for kids.
This is the best explanation. It's much easier (and enjoyable to be honest) to live for yourself in modern times than any time in the past. Having small kids is an inconvenient interruption in life even for people who like kids.
To be fair it is hard. Like I didn't sleep well for past 9 months because of a toddler and newborn. And dealing with both can be challenging. Temper tantrums, being sick all of it. When I go away for work trip, man it's easy. Haha but after 36 hours, I really start to miss my wife and kids. And the joy of seeing them grow up is mind blowing.
It's always been hard especially for the mother. The father that can go away on business trips really has no reason to complain about it being hard LOL
Ya I go every quarter for only 2 or 3 days. So not bad. My other friends travel a lot more. But I always tell my wife it's terrible bc it's Houston, TX. Meanwhile I literally get like 10-12 hours asleep which is twice the amount I get at home.
Amen sister! It’s even hard when the husband comes back. I love the extra help but it’s an adjustment for sure. Luckily, mom’s are super heroes & make it through. And good Dad’s figure out how to take over with the kids, as they get older. Mom’s don’t need “ help”, they need the husband to take over for awhile & give mom a break. That’s happy wife, happy life. 💕
Perfectly described. when I travelled when we had young kids (wife was not working at that point) I said the exact same thing along the lines of "first night was great, after that........" And then the memory of coming home one time at airport, with a small toy,,, and my first born running and screaming 'daddy' !!!!! Smiles all around from other passengers-- a great memory (I was never gone more than 5 days, and even those were only a few LOL)
Ya 5 day rule. I went to a Miami conference for 7 days. I even had my wife with me for 3 out 7 days. But by day 5, I was like what am I doing here. I haven't seen my son in way way too long. I have had friends who have gone to Europe with little ones at home and they said by day 5, the usually are like well I have seen enough cool shit and eaten cool meals, how are my kids doing, I need to see them. Got to be something psychological about that 5 day rule.
That’s exactly my thought. We have produced chronological adults who refuse to grow up. They believe their pets are their children. They still find the same lifestyle they lived in college to be fun. They expect their big daddy government to care about them and take care of them. They want to stay children forever. Real children only get in their way.
What is truly sad is that by the time they realize that they should have had kids… it will be too late. What happens to these idiots in old age.. they die alone dependent upon the government. Sad.
Aha. So kids are your support system instead of the government. So unselfish.
Meanwhile care homes are full of people that have kids but are never visited by them.
You are free to make your own choices. Have 50 kids.
Others are free to not have them. I’m not sure why judgment of this level is needed. Plus does anyone not having children impact you negatively in any way for you to be so mad at them?
Selfishness plays a huge role. Too many in our age of instant gratification are 100% into themselves and their own "wants" (not needs). Result: Children (and having families) are viewed as burdensome.
And having children is not selfish at all right? A cursory reading of the comments section here tells me “Kids bring you so much joy, kids are helpful in old age, Kids make you complete”. Nothing selfish about that right?
The judgment here is the same that vegans have for meat eaters and lockdowners had for those that did not fall for it. Exactly the same.
If you strip away the nonsense-it is a personal choice. No child free couple is preventing you from having children. Them not having children does not affect you in any way. So why the hatred? Unless its a jealous rage?
And of course you have not read all of the comments here - most of which are saying people not having children are "selfish, idiots, immature...etc" and not one comment saying its a personal choice (which it ultimately is). Is that not hatred my friend?
Of course - since you have no logical counter to what I said - you resort to platitudes.
All I am asking in my comment above is why can this not be respected as a personal choice? Why the anger towards those who choose differently? How does their not having children affect you in any way?
Is this not the same as the anger the mask wearers had towards those that did not wear a mask?
Just a wild ass guess, but could it possibly be that the answer is really a cultural shift among women all over the world with respect to when to have their first child? When that date of the first child gets deferred until closer to age 35 than closer to age 25, you get all kinds of intervening factors that make it more difficult for women to become pregnant (e.g., endomitriosis) and more difficult to have large families (because you can only have so many children from age 35 to 45).
Also, could the known divorce rates of first marriages (50%??) be having an impact on women deciding whether it is "safe" to have their first child?
Also, could it be the downfall of devoutness with respect to religion, generally? That is certainly a co-incident cultural phenomenon here in the U.S. and Europe, though, admittedly, this may just be a positive correlation and nothing more.
Its more complex than this, yet radical feminism is a factor. That doesn’t negate mens discounting of the importance of the role of women and making them second class citizens for centuries. I think this can all be brought back to every human issue and challenge, not following Gods and Jesus commandments.
Exactly! We have to take away the decision making authority from women and put them back in the world where they were seen and not heard. ah the good old days
Thank you for making my point for me. Your comment epitomizes the attitude that has resulted in the decline in birth rates. Women of the world, liberate yourselves from the future, literally!
This is a huge factor. Sex education in school does not prepare women for the biological reality that having children over age 35 becomes increasingly difficult and comes with more risks. I honestly had very little knowledge about these risks and conception until I had my first (age 32).
I live in Australia and the average age to give birth here is between 30-34 across all social classes. If you don’t have your first kid until over 30 you are unlikely to have more than 2 or 3.
And what about the dating apps... no reason to settle down with endless opportunities at your fingertips, delaying a chance of meeting anyone until mid to late 30s. I’m 36 and don’t think I would have two kids if my husband and I didn’t meet at university in the pre-Tinder era.
I've been an acupuncturist/Chinese Medicine practitioner for almost 25 years and I've seen a lot more problems with fertility than when I opened my practice. Some of this is probably people trying to conceive in their 30's and 40s instead of in their teens and 20's. But I also see a lot of hormonal issues even with younger woman and low sperm counts and issues with sperm motility and morphology with men. Purely on the physiology side, I'd guess that endocrine disrupters, EMF's, HPA axis issues, poor nutrition, stress, lack of sleep are all involved - not to mention a recent pharmaceutical product that will go unnamed at the moment :) Fertility clinics are raking in big money right now. One of my clients did 14 IVF cycles before she was able to carry one kid to term. Insurance plans don't always cover fertility services, so this can get expensive very fast. But as far as couples choosing not to have kids, I can hazard a guess from my personal experience. My husband and I met when we were both 21-yrs-old and we are now in our mid-fifties. We do not have children. We both grew up in progressive communities on Long Island and upstate NY and went to an Ivy League school. We have talked about this issue a lot and have both recently realized that we were effectively brainwashed into believing that the most important thing we could do for the environment was to NOT have kids. I was a pretty sensitive kid and I remember feeling horrified at all of the environmental destruction in the 70's and 80's and I firmly believed that we were heading for the point of no return in terms of the earth's carrying capacity for humans. I believed that over-population was the biggest threat facing our species. LOL, of course I can see the fear porn now and it's very obvious to me that my choice was driving by a desire to "do the right thing" for humanity. Sound familiar?? Masks? Jabs? All for the greater good??? Yikes!! The last 3 years have been quite eye-opening...the meme that's been going around lately "You are the carbon they want to reduce" is stunning in its accuracy. And, I'm really not blaming anyone. It was my decision based on what I understood to be true at the time, but now I realize I didn't have access to the whole picture. If I had to do it again, I would definitely have kids!
I think birth control pills and their pheromone disruption is one of the reasons so many are so unhealthy and infertile now. For decades, people have been having kids with people that they normally wouldn't have mated with, due to the pheromone altering. And then the next generation gets together with others that are the result of ill-matched pheromone conception. And here we are.
Oh yes, definitely! I would include hormonal Birth Control in the endocrine disrupter category. That was one if the worst health decisions I ever made and I think a lot of women get talked into hormonal birth control that causes awful repercussions later in life - not only when they want to conceive but also when they go through menopause. Definitely a bigger discussion. And now women are even being encouraged to go on pills without the one-week break for menstruation. This is an absolute disaster as it prevents toxins from being released from the body with the monthly cycle and puts a ton of pressure on the liver, gallbladder and the endocrine system. I was such a fan of Planned Parenthood back in the day - but now I realize how much they were advocating for sterilization of young women AND men at ages when they couldn’t possibly conceive (pun intended!) of the long-term consequences of their actions. My husband almost got talked into a vasectomy at Planned Parenthood when he was 25-yrs-old. He mentioned to a nurse that he wasn’t planning to have kids, and they tried to schedule him THAT DAY for a procedure. Good thing he almost passed out just thinking about it and had to go home!!
I have two girls in their early 20s. They think I am a crazy woman for being so very against BCP, which doctors want to give young women for everything from migraine to acne. No! But so far they are listening. Going on BCP was one of the worst decisions I ever made.
So true. Paul VI predicted some malign effects of birth control ("consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards"), but he didn't foresee the endocrine disruption and decline in fertility. He was more right than he knew!
You are brave to admit your later learning. I'm sure you represent a vast swath of your generation. Bless you for admitting the truth you have now recognized. I pray that many more are.
Thank you for your thoughts - I completely agree. I also wonder about the effects of environment/pharmaceutucals/adulterated food not only on fertility, but also on desire. Why do so many young people have confusion over their gender and sexuality? Could it be the toxins that they are exposed to (and even what they were exposed to in-utero)? Hormones and neurochemistry are delicate!
On our recent flights from Spokane to San Diego, we saw a Caucasian couple with 6 young children, mostly redheads (even more unusual). All well behaved. Gives me hope!
Great topic. I am 35 with two kids under 3. My wife and I, want more. Not sure how many but we do want more. But we are the exception. I would say 40% of my friends at 35 don't have children. Most of them are actually unmarried guys. Crazy that at 35 they aren't close to getting married, they still party like we were 18. And my wife's friends are the same boat. They either have trouble getting pregnant or just want to be fur moms' or wine aunts. It blows my mind that in your mid 30's there is no strong desire to have children. I agree with you, there is something globally going on and it would be great to learn what.
My daughter is now 53, has 3 adult kids because she married young at 20. A lot of her high school friends didn't want to get married and preferred to work, plus they were into partying a lot and in my opinion, more than a few of them seemed to need the high of constantly having men pursue them. However, now that these women are in their early 50s and have no husband or children, they are realizing the foolishness of their past "free" behavior and they are realizing the consequences of their choices. They are also discovering that unmarried or available men their own age are interested in much younger women. It's pretty sad to watch.
It's relatively straightforward cause and effect. When no one is responsible for their actions - that is, everything is given to them and nothing is earned, the idea of having to be responsible for an action becomes terrifying.
There is MUCH more discussion to be had on the impact of Moral Hazards on our society, but at the simplest level having a child is about the only remaining item that places responsibility on the shoulders of an individual, and people don't know how to handle responsibility any longer so it's inevitable they would run as far from this one as possible...
Everyone gets a trophy right and meritocracy is bad. The coddling, entitling and victim mindset is what the progressive narrative continually stresses and has the TAXPAYER fund it all
I blame almost everything wrong with western society on the explosion of federal income taxes. Once you become a slave (and someone else owning your labor means you ARE a slave), the expectation is that your master will care for you.
And then our generals moved off the battle field, and all was officially lost. When those sending people into war don't actually go to war, the war is already lost. When I don't own my small business, and instead work for the government, my economic responsibility is lost.
And then, finally, in the 1950's, we outsourced caring for our communities to the government, and all was officially lost. With the New Deal, the community that cared for their children, the elderly, and the sick was forever broken, and now the responsibility for my children, my neighbors AND my parents (medicare is a DISASTER for continuity of community) is the government's, and not mine.
Once I don't control my own freedom, I know that I'm cannon fodder for a leadership class that doesn't care, and my behaviors no longer impact the outcome of those around me because the government has taken on that "responsibility," the inevitable outcome is that these things cease to matter and inevitably fall away.
And all we had to trade for all this "freedom" (it's exactly the opposite) is our happiness and our feeling of self worth.
It is simple...........kids take time, money, love and commitment. That generation would rather spend those things on themselves, that is, if they ever put their phones down.
Recently my wife and I have been blessed with the coming of our 4th child. Though it was a surprise to us and those around us, the ultimate power of the universe/cosmos is in charge. We will have children ranging from 20 to 0, have not changed a diaper in 12 years, but I am excited.
The world is surrounded in negativity from the constant war mongering, to attempts by the elite to supress our populations through mass extermination (COVID), to the mentally unstable individuals who don't know what sex they are, to insane rates of abortion.
Somehow, I feel that it has always been an attack on the nuclear family. and the Lord knows and at 45 years old I am starting fresh. A new human, after many trials and tribulations with 3, and I can only say, it is not too late for anyone to start a family.
Thank you Alex and you are correct; this is a dark cloud over the world one can only hope is lifted as many people find their way back into the light.
Because 1) it’s too damn expensive. 2) there’s this psyopps that says humans are a malignant scourge. 3) fertility is going off a cliff. 4) the bio weapon has made this 20% worse, give or take.
Agree with your order. I have a recent grad, nice good looking kid, making $75k, which in Canada means $40k. His rent is $2.5k (no car, walks to work). He cannot see having a family until his 30s.
I am an older guy now... but I have 2 sons, and I am surprised at how differently they view the world compared to how I saw things in my early 20's. I was INTERESTED in women, and sex, big time, as were all of my contemporaries. My sons are more interested in video games and memes. I am not saying that they don't have any interest, but, the value I placed on finding a woman to create a home is lost. I think my sons are a little leary of womens motives, and certainly of any promise of fidelity. Feminism, and government have placed masculinity in a jar. The payoff for starting a family is likely losing your capital in a painful divorce, or being tied to child support payments with no meaningful relationship with your offspring. These negative consequences have eclipsed the probability of the American Dream that I grew up with. I don't blame either of them for taking a pass to this point, although I do wish for them to both find a meaningful and lasting relationship that will lead to parenthood.
This. Relationship dynamics have changed drastically in recent years. Modern "empowered" women will all pursue the top 5 % of men, who, spoilt for choice, will in turn not commit to any single one. Only after their party years are over will they be willing to settle for a regular man, who actually wants nothing more than a family. By then, fertility is much reduced, and on a downward slope.
So yes, I blame female nature and hook up culture, enabled by modern technology in the form of dating apps.
To parent a child, and do it well, is a life long commitment, requires putting your own interests aside, self sacrifice and looking to cover the needs of your child before yourself. We have collectively raised a self centered entitled generation, that in no way wants to put someone else before themselves. It’s that simple.
What do you know, another "Baffling" phenomenon! Just BAFFLING!
Is there anything more derogatory than the stay at home mom, in current modern society? Do you think it is somehow purely a coincidence?
The plan was launched in the late 60's and has been endlessly promoted for three generations. Its more important to be a taxpayer than a parent. Not an accident, planned and executed.
Well I can assure all adults, your employer's only value is to help raise your children. They, and the government that steals half your income, could care less about you.
You are being manipulated for your labor.
No children means no legacy, no sense of heritage. You're just a little consumer. A perfect entity for the elite.
A related thread: the medical establishment’s love for barrenness, to the point of deliberately deceiving women about the dangers or hormonal birth control. Plus their love of castration and abortion. It’s a true medical war on fertility itself.
I do think there is a spiritual battle at play at least in part. To be fruitful and multiply is our Creator’s first and oft-repeated blessing to mankind in the Bible; the medical establishment seems to be far more pro Moloch….
Ps mark steyn wrote bestselling books about our demographic crisis decades ago and always laughed about how he knew all these world leaders read the books and told him in private that they agreed, but were too afraid to ever bring it up in public
We're literally telling young people that the world is going to end and they're personally responsible -- OF COURSE they aren't interested in bringing children into this world.
This isn't the fault of the children, it's the fault of the people who are scaring the children to death nonstop for their entire childhoods.
The climate cult and its alarmist propaganda are largely to blame. By their lights, climate change is an apocalyptic danger and “billions will die” in the next couple of decades. The truth, however, is that there’s no scientific basis for any claim of climate apocalypse. In fact, every major environmental trend is improving.
https://www.euphoricrecall.net/p/we-havent-reached-peak-climate-alarmism
I am not the one to discuss my thought in depth, as I am not religious and am childless. Please explore the lack of belief today in the true meaning of marriage, that two become one, and that combination produces family, children, and expands and futures society.
Good point. I'm childless but religious and I definitely think it's that we've lost hold of the idea that it's natural to want to be fruitful and multiply. We no longer view children as part and parcel of marriage, its purpose, its normal state. And if we do, the number of children is restricted to a token one or two.
Children, marriage, and family are now viewed from an extrinsic perspective, as in will it work? What will it do for me? Will I be happy if I do this? In the past, we knew children, marriage, and family were what gave life meaning and joy. Going secular as a society did us no favors. Everything now has a price, almost especially human beings, and it's quite low.
Younger generations are selfish. They'd rather spend their time and resources on themselves. Just look at social media, most posts are about showing off lifestyles, declaring pronouns and "me time". It's all about them. Having kids requires sacrifices.
Having kids means you put THEM first. The younger generation seem so self centered and narcissistic that there is no room to put anyone else first.
That's exactly what the problem is.
All true. The culture and perhaps their home environment have failed them, and the result is a stubborn hold on putting themselves first even to the point of impoverishing their lives, as we see all the time. You mention several of those results. The irony is that when we sacrifice ourselves we gain so much more at a much deeper level.
Agree with you. I have 2 daughters. I loved every minute of raising them.
Aha. ‘We gain. We benefit’. But not having kids is selfish. Ok.
You perfectly verbalized my thought. Thank you.
T Coddington wrote a Substack on this very issue today as a complement to Alex's piece. Definitely worth a read. https://inumero.substack.com/p/the-numbers-on-having-kids-is-worse
Thanks!
I have 5 kids. Started in 1990 and ended in 2003. In the beginning of my journey as a mom, all the other moms stayed home like me. It was hard work raising the kids. Selfless work with payoffs, but let’s face it the day to day grind of being an unpaid, looked down upon by society maid and laundress probably does not sound appealing to many. An interesting shift happened in those years. Many of the moms went back to work. Many had to to maintain their lifestyle. Social media made doing so the highest priority. There was no internet in 1990. Many had to just to get by. I cooked for neighborhood kids and watched their kids all day, because they hated the Nannie’s their parents hired. By my last kid we went from parents fighting over who got to be the room mother, to having to be the room mother and then having to do every field trip and party because there were no room mothers. My oldest is 33 and my youngest is 20. I’m so happy I have them all in my life. They are my friends and my social life and my joy. I find it so sad and I am utterly devastated for what these young people are missing out on. We now have companies and schools with big bloated staff, all paid less because there are so many workers in the field. When I was in high school there was 1 principal and a few deans for 3000 kids. I probably sound uber sexist, but I enjoyed those sloppy selfless years like no other time. If I could go back, those are the years I would relive. I had a great high paying job til I was 32. At 60 I went back to work and am still working at 66, so I’m not anti working. But many women (and therefore men) are missing out on what I consider to be my greatest achievement as a human being: raising humans to be good people. There is a lot of pressure, and I don’t say these words in judgement. I just feel so sad for what people are missing out on. Being a parent made me into a better person. Sacrifice is ultimately a good thing for people. It makes us better in every way
I am a 60-something 😉 with 18-23 year olds. So we have a lot of overlap. But it must be very interesting to have a household that spans “late millennials” to smack-dap GenZ.
Anyway, I’ve spent my fair share of time with those (ethnic) nannies at the playground. The thing working women seldom seem honest about is that their “freedom” is absolutely contingent on other women doing their work. So much for consistent feminism. Children don’t raise themselves. And housework falls on someone.
After the trials of 2 decades worth of parenting, I am very blessed by my kiddos.
What a wonderful description of the joys (and work and pain) of motherhood. Your last three sentences highlight the personal and societal benefits of parenthood.
Yep
One of my middle school yearbooks had a 'Save the Earth' theme.
This was in the late '80s.
At least then it was not nearly as political. Common sense said pick up trash when you see it. Respect life in general as in wildlife and terrain, but look what climate change narrative means today. Hijacked just like science
I was in middle school in the 70s… And they scared the hell out of us with the coming Ice Age. I was actually terrified over this in the 5th grade.
these are excuses to not do something. rich idle and lazy people do not want to take on burdens,
The problem is that those who claim climate armageddhen Have a louder voice than the realists. Plus the censorship machine is well oiled.
Good thing nobody, especially smart doctors, read these journals anymore. The subject of climate as a health concern is almost funny. Of course it’s important, but maybe let’s start by stopping the constant airplane chemtrails that are raining down on all our cities and farmlands. It also includes the bio-engineering of weather by purposely creating extreme heat in areas, ruining crops, and turning around and blaming climate change.
Weapons & aerosolized metals are used to create fake “ wildfire” apocalyptic scenarios that again are used as negative climate change narratives. It’s time to tell the “climate & crisis” script writers that we aren’t buying it.
Of course, the young & dumb still do but maybe there’s still hope for them?
Things will get real for them when they have to put their video games down because of rolling blackouts. Or food shortages might force our teens & college kids to get jobs to
( gasp!) help the family unit. That will be a productive teaching moment. For the last few generations, life has been pretty easy. It may be awhile until it’s “ easy” again, if ever. First, we have to fight off the WHO- United Nation Reset Agenda. We can do it but it’s going to take some time.
I think this “laying the groundwork” article is best understood in the context of the WHO “treaty” written anonymously — although I suspect that Jeremy Farrar mainly authored it — that aims to allow almost unbridled international authority to this organization in the event of a “global health emergency” — which these faceless folks get to define.
Our kids had a module at school about the climate crisis..basically told the kids everything was f***ed...now this same school is organising trips of rich UES kids to go to Morocco to 'help' with the earthquake recovery...as if these hamptons visiting maid beckoning brats have anything at all to offer in the way of carpentry or masonry skill..so we add to polluting air travel to go do colleg app padding whilst telling them a couple years ago that same activity was leading us to our doom..
💯
Fear porn
I absolutely agree that the climate fear-mongering is scaring and/or guilting young people away from parenthood. I fear, though, that personal selfishness is even more to blame. Having children is expensive, cuts into career, and transforms a woman’s body. Plus, the economy - it’s hard to start a family when your prospect of owning a home is bleak.
although I will say that my parents raised their 4 children in (rather minimal) rental square footage and produced 4 college graduates, inc an RN, a wealthy philanthropist, a oil industry manager & me — now I firmly believe in the value of homeownership, but it isn’t everything
Bingo! This is literally the number one thing I hear out of friends mouths, as rational for either having no children or stopping at 1. The fear that has been drilled into our generation about overpopulation and resource consumption is real.
A very close second is that life is far too good to introduce children into the mix. Having children later in life is nudging this one along. Why would I mess up a perfect, well put together life at 35 to have kids?
My wife and I had kids “late.” She was 39 and I 37 when our first was born. The 2nd one came along when we were 42 and 40. We are in our mid-50s now and staring down college for the oldest. If I had it to do over again I might have had kids when I was a bit younger but you take what life gives you. Plus, I wouldn’t have had some of the great memories that I was able to create before getting married and having kids.
Same. Had my first at 34 and 3rd at 40. Bike a career in my early years, traveled and had a great run. Having 3 kids has been far more rewarding. Being a bit older and settled, my wife and I raised wonderful young adults who are now great friends as well as our children. Sadly those who chose not to have children often regret it in their later years. My brother for one - he is preying his nieces and nephews take care of him as he ages. Good thing me and my other siblings kept the fire going and procreated so he won’t die a lonely man.
We have 3 kids 6 and under and I'm 43. Trying not to think about college yet! I like that we had kids later....it kind of feels like we are retired now, plus we did so much FUN stuff in our 20s and 30s.
Look how easily so many were turned into Hamas supporters. Telling them not to have kids is and was a piece of cake in that respect.
Bad food is the reason. Increase in processed foods direct correlation to decline in speed counts and more man boobs.
This helps explain America (not to mention nobody wants to bang fatties), but what about the rest of the world?
Bad food is the reason. Increase in processed foods direct correlation to decline in sperm counts and more man boobs.
See also: “AP Environmental Science” class in high school.
When the general populace let the deranged run roughshod over them then what do you expect?
They are all children themselves.. they never had to grow up.. so they are terrified of the responsibility of children.
I hear this all the time "Once I am established in my career...once I am ready to settle down...once we have traveled, made x dollars, bought a house..." They are waiting to grow up first, not realizing that it is doing the hard things that GROWS you up.
I heard from someone that marriage is now a capstone, not a milestone. You are right...they are waiting for everything to be "ready". No one is ever really ready for marriage, and certainly not for kids.
Exactly!
Bad food is the reason. Increase in processed foods direct correlation to decline in sperm counts and more man boobs.
The 💉 didn’t help!
This is the best explanation. It's much easier (and enjoyable to be honest) to live for yourself in modern times than any time in the past. Having small kids is an inconvenient interruption in life even for people who like kids.
And the culture never talks about the complete joy in having young children, they only talk about how hard it is. 🤦♀️
To be fair it is hard. Like I didn't sleep well for past 9 months because of a toddler and newborn. And dealing with both can be challenging. Temper tantrums, being sick all of it. When I go away for work trip, man it's easy. Haha but after 36 hours, I really start to miss my wife and kids. And the joy of seeing them grow up is mind blowing.
Exactly! Hard.. yet for me.. the joy has definitely outweighed the pain.
It's always been hard especially for the mother. The father that can go away on business trips really has no reason to complain about it being hard LOL
To be fair, women travel for work as well.
Ya I go every quarter for only 2 or 3 days. So not bad. My other friends travel a lot more. But I always tell my wife it's terrible bc it's Houston, TX. Meanwhile I literally get like 10-12 hours asleep which is twice the amount I get at home.
I’m telling your wife! 😂
Amen sister! It’s even hard when the husband comes back. I love the extra help but it’s an adjustment for sure. Luckily, mom’s are super heroes & make it through. And good Dad’s figure out how to take over with the kids, as they get older. Mom’s don’t need “ help”, they need the husband to take over for awhile & give mom a break. That’s happy wife, happy life. 💕
To Jeni:
Perfectly described. when I travelled when we had young kids (wife was not working at that point) I said the exact same thing along the lines of "first night was great, after that........" And then the memory of coming home one time at airport, with a small toy,,, and my first born running and screaming 'daddy' !!!!! Smiles all around from other passengers-- a great memory (I was never gone more than 5 days, and even those were only a few LOL)
Great story!
Ya 5 day rule. I went to a Miami conference for 7 days. I even had my wife with me for 3 out 7 days. But by day 5, I was like what am I doing here. I haven't seen my son in way way too long. I have had friends who have gone to Europe with little ones at home and they said by day 5, the usually are like well I have seen enough cool shit and eaten cool meals, how are my kids doing, I need to see them. Got to be something psychological about that 5 day rule.
Me me. Me me. I. I. I need. I feel. I need.
And they say that NOT having kids is selfish.
Good! But every type of joy is not for everyone you know. There’s a lot of joy in many things. But doesn’t mean everyone needs to do them.
That’s exactly my thought. We have produced chronological adults who refuse to grow up. They believe their pets are their children. They still find the same lifestyle they lived in college to be fun. They expect their big daddy government to care about them and take care of them. They want to stay children forever. Real children only get in their way.
What is truly sad is that by the time they realize that they should have had kids… it will be too late. What happens to these idiots in old age.. they die alone dependent upon the government. Sad.
Aha. So kids are your support system instead of the government. So unselfish.
Meanwhile care homes are full of people that have kids but are never visited by them.
You are free to make your own choices. Have 50 kids.
Others are free to not have them. I’m not sure why judgment of this level is needed. Plus does anyone not having children impact you negatively in any way for you to be so mad at them?
OR it could be a conscious choice. What happened to freedom of choice? Or does that only apply to things you approve of?
Selfishness plays a huge role. Too many in our age of instant gratification are 100% into themselves and their own "wants" (not needs). Result: Children (and having families) are viewed as burdensome.
And having children is not selfish at all right? A cursory reading of the comments section here tells me “Kids bring you so much joy, kids are helpful in old age, Kids make you complete”. Nothing selfish about that right?
The judgment here is the same that vegans have for meat eaters and lockdowners had for those that did not fall for it. Exactly the same.
If you strip away the nonsense-it is a personal choice. No child free couple is preventing you from having children. Them not having children does not affect you in any way. So why the hatred? Unless its a jealous rage?
Calm down Barcode. For a closer example of "hatred", you need only look in the mirror.
And of course you have not read all of the comments here - most of which are saying people not having children are "selfish, idiots, immature...etc" and not one comment saying its a personal choice (which it ultimately is). Is that not hatred my friend?
Of course - since you have no logical counter to what I said - you resort to platitudes.
All I am asking in my comment above is why can this not be respected as a personal choice? Why the anger towards those who choose differently? How does their not having children affect you in any way?
Is this not the same as the anger the mask wearers had towards those that did not wear a mask?
Just a wild ass guess, but could it possibly be that the answer is really a cultural shift among women all over the world with respect to when to have their first child? When that date of the first child gets deferred until closer to age 35 than closer to age 25, you get all kinds of intervening factors that make it more difficult for women to become pregnant (e.g., endomitriosis) and more difficult to have large families (because you can only have so many children from age 35 to 45).
Also, could the known divorce rates of first marriages (50%??) be having an impact on women deciding whether it is "safe" to have their first child?
Also, could it be the downfall of devoutness with respect to religion, generally? That is certainly a co-incident cultural phenomenon here in the U.S. and Europe, though, admittedly, this may just be a positive correlation and nothing more.
Good comment, but it could be boiled down to one word; Feminism.
Its more complex than this, yet radical feminism is a factor. That doesn’t negate mens discounting of the importance of the role of women and making them second class citizens for centuries. I think this can all be brought back to every human issue and challenge, not following Gods and Jesus commandments.
Amen. Came here to say this.
Exactly! We have to take away the decision making authority from women and put them back in the world where they were seen and not heard. ah the good old days
Thank you for making my point for me. Your comment epitomizes the attitude that has resulted in the decline in birth rates. Women of the world, liberate yourselves from the future, literally!
And yet at 8 billion people and growing - here we are!
This is a huge factor. Sex education in school does not prepare women for the biological reality that having children over age 35 becomes increasingly difficult and comes with more risks. I honestly had very little knowledge about these risks and conception until I had my first (age 32).
I live in Australia and the average age to give birth here is between 30-34 across all social classes. If you don’t have your first kid until over 30 you are unlikely to have more than 2 or 3.
And what about the dating apps... no reason to settle down with endless opportunities at your fingertips, delaying a chance of meeting anyone until mid to late 30s. I’m 36 and don’t think I would have two kids if my husband and I didn’t meet at university in the pre-Tinder era.
all good points/observations
I've been an acupuncturist/Chinese Medicine practitioner for almost 25 years and I've seen a lot more problems with fertility than when I opened my practice. Some of this is probably people trying to conceive in their 30's and 40s instead of in their teens and 20's. But I also see a lot of hormonal issues even with younger woman and low sperm counts and issues with sperm motility and morphology with men. Purely on the physiology side, I'd guess that endocrine disrupters, EMF's, HPA axis issues, poor nutrition, stress, lack of sleep are all involved - not to mention a recent pharmaceutical product that will go unnamed at the moment :) Fertility clinics are raking in big money right now. One of my clients did 14 IVF cycles before she was able to carry one kid to term. Insurance plans don't always cover fertility services, so this can get expensive very fast. But as far as couples choosing not to have kids, I can hazard a guess from my personal experience. My husband and I met when we were both 21-yrs-old and we are now in our mid-fifties. We do not have children. We both grew up in progressive communities on Long Island and upstate NY and went to an Ivy League school. We have talked about this issue a lot and have both recently realized that we were effectively brainwashed into believing that the most important thing we could do for the environment was to NOT have kids. I was a pretty sensitive kid and I remember feeling horrified at all of the environmental destruction in the 70's and 80's and I firmly believed that we were heading for the point of no return in terms of the earth's carrying capacity for humans. I believed that over-population was the biggest threat facing our species. LOL, of course I can see the fear porn now and it's very obvious to me that my choice was driving by a desire to "do the right thing" for humanity. Sound familiar?? Masks? Jabs? All for the greater good??? Yikes!! The last 3 years have been quite eye-opening...the meme that's been going around lately "You are the carbon they want to reduce" is stunning in its accuracy. And, I'm really not blaming anyone. It was my decision based on what I understood to be true at the time, but now I realize I didn't have access to the whole picture. If I had to do it again, I would definitely have kids!
Your honesty is appreciated.
I think birth control pills and their pheromone disruption is one of the reasons so many are so unhealthy and infertile now. For decades, people have been having kids with people that they normally wouldn't have mated with, due to the pheromone altering. And then the next generation gets together with others that are the result of ill-matched pheromone conception. And here we are.
Oh yes, definitely! I would include hormonal Birth Control in the endocrine disrupter category. That was one if the worst health decisions I ever made and I think a lot of women get talked into hormonal birth control that causes awful repercussions later in life - not only when they want to conceive but also when they go through menopause. Definitely a bigger discussion. And now women are even being encouraged to go on pills without the one-week break for menstruation. This is an absolute disaster as it prevents toxins from being released from the body with the monthly cycle and puts a ton of pressure on the liver, gallbladder and the endocrine system. I was such a fan of Planned Parenthood back in the day - but now I realize how much they were advocating for sterilization of young women AND men at ages when they couldn’t possibly conceive (pun intended!) of the long-term consequences of their actions. My husband almost got talked into a vasectomy at Planned Parenthood when he was 25-yrs-old. He mentioned to a nurse that he wasn’t planning to have kids, and they tried to schedule him THAT DAY for a procedure. Good thing he almost passed out just thinking about it and had to go home!!
If Planned Parenthood didn’t sterilize you, they will gladly kill your preborn child. They are a huge part of the birth rate decline in our country.
I have two girls in their early 20s. They think I am a crazy woman for being so very against BCP, which doctors want to give young women for everything from migraine to acne. No! But so far they are listening. Going on BCP was one of the worst decisions I ever made.
So true. Paul VI predicted some malign effects of birth control ("consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards"), but he didn't foresee the endocrine disruption and decline in fertility. He was more right than he knew!
And yes to the pheromone disruption too. That gets very little discussion time and I agree it's a big deal. What a mess!
You are brave to admit your later learning. I'm sure you represent a vast swath of your generation. Bless you for admitting the truth you have now recognized. I pray that many more are.
Thank you! Although it doesn’t feel like bravery - more like I just woke up out of the matrix and I’m kind of stunned how easily I was deceived :(
I do think a lot of people are coming to terms with a similar truth. Hopefully it’s enough to turn things around.
Thank you for your thoughts - I completely agree. I also wonder about the effects of environment/pharmaceutucals/adulterated food not only on fertility, but also on desire. Why do so many young people have confusion over their gender and sexuality? Could it be the toxins that they are exposed to (and even what they were exposed to in-utero)? Hormones and neurochemistry are delicate!
On our recent flights from Spokane to San Diego, we saw a Caucasian couple with 6 young children, mostly redheads (even more unusual). All well behaved. Gives me hope!
The takeover is proceeding according to plan.......
They be part of The Remnant
Great topic. I am 35 with two kids under 3. My wife and I, want more. Not sure how many but we do want more. But we are the exception. I would say 40% of my friends at 35 don't have children. Most of them are actually unmarried guys. Crazy that at 35 they aren't close to getting married, they still party like we were 18. And my wife's friends are the same boat. They either have trouble getting pregnant or just want to be fur moms' or wine aunts. It blows my mind that in your mid 30's there is no strong desire to have children. I agree with you, there is something globally going on and it would be great to learn what.
My daughter is now 53, has 3 adult kids because she married young at 20. A lot of her high school friends didn't want to get married and preferred to work, plus they were into partying a lot and in my opinion, more than a few of them seemed to need the high of constantly having men pursue them. However, now that these women are in their early 50s and have no husband or children, they are realizing the foolishness of their past "free" behavior and they are realizing the consequences of their choices. They are also discovering that unmarried or available men their own age are interested in much younger women. It's pretty sad to watch.
It's relatively straightforward cause and effect. When no one is responsible for their actions - that is, everything is given to them and nothing is earned, the idea of having to be responsible for an action becomes terrifying.
There is MUCH more discussion to be had on the impact of Moral Hazards on our society, but at the simplest level having a child is about the only remaining item that places responsibility on the shoulders of an individual, and people don't know how to handle responsibility any longer so it's inevitable they would run as far from this one as possible...
What else can we expect in a society that values comfort and entertainment more than anything else.
Everyone gets a trophy right and meritocracy is bad. The coddling, entitling and victim mindset is what the progressive narrative continually stresses and has the TAXPAYER fund it all
I blame almost everything wrong with western society on the explosion of federal income taxes. Once you become a slave (and someone else owning your labor means you ARE a slave), the expectation is that your master will care for you.
And then our generals moved off the battle field, and all was officially lost. When those sending people into war don't actually go to war, the war is already lost. When I don't own my small business, and instead work for the government, my economic responsibility is lost.
And then, finally, in the 1950's, we outsourced caring for our communities to the government, and all was officially lost. With the New Deal, the community that cared for their children, the elderly, and the sick was forever broken, and now the responsibility for my children, my neighbors AND my parents (medicare is a DISASTER for continuity of community) is the government's, and not mine.
Once I don't control my own freedom, I know that I'm cannon fodder for a leadership class that doesn't care, and my behaviors no longer impact the outcome of those around me because the government has taken on that "responsibility," the inevitable outcome is that these things cease to matter and inevitably fall away.
And all we had to trade for all this "freedom" (it's exactly the opposite) is our happiness and our feeling of self worth.
It is simple...........kids take time, money, love and commitment. That generation would rather spend those things on themselves, that is, if they ever put their phones down.
Recently my wife and I have been blessed with the coming of our 4th child. Though it was a surprise to us and those around us, the ultimate power of the universe/cosmos is in charge. We will have children ranging from 20 to 0, have not changed a diaper in 12 years, but I am excited.
The world is surrounded in negativity from the constant war mongering, to attempts by the elite to supress our populations through mass extermination (COVID), to the mentally unstable individuals who don't know what sex they are, to insane rates of abortion.
Somehow, I feel that it has always been an attack on the nuclear family. and the Lord knows and at 45 years old I am starting fresh. A new human, after many trials and tribulations with 3, and I can only say, it is not too late for anyone to start a family.
Thank you Alex and you are correct; this is a dark cloud over the world one can only hope is lifted as many people find their way back into the light.
In many US cities, half of pregnancies end in abortion. Alex must factor abortion into the equation.
true
Mom of four here. Congratulations! Babies are always good news. I wish you all the best.
God bless
Because 1) it’s too damn expensive. 2) there’s this psyopps that says humans are a malignant scourge. 3) fertility is going off a cliff. 4) the bio weapon has made this 20% worse, give or take.
Agree with your order. I have a recent grad, nice good looking kid, making $75k, which in Canada means $40k. His rent is $2.5k (no car, walks to work). He cannot see having a family until his 30s.
I am an older guy now... but I have 2 sons, and I am surprised at how differently they view the world compared to how I saw things in my early 20's. I was INTERESTED in women, and sex, big time, as were all of my contemporaries. My sons are more interested in video games and memes. I am not saying that they don't have any interest, but, the value I placed on finding a woman to create a home is lost. I think my sons are a little leary of womens motives, and certainly of any promise of fidelity. Feminism, and government have placed masculinity in a jar. The payoff for starting a family is likely losing your capital in a painful divorce, or being tied to child support payments with no meaningful relationship with your offspring. These negative consequences have eclipsed the probability of the American Dream that I grew up with. I don't blame either of them for taking a pass to this point, although I do wish for them to both find a meaningful and lasting relationship that will lead to parenthood.
This. Relationship dynamics have changed drastically in recent years. Modern "empowered" women will all pursue the top 5 % of men, who, spoilt for choice, will in turn not commit to any single one. Only after their party years are over will they be willing to settle for a regular man, who actually wants nothing more than a family. By then, fertility is much reduced, and on a downward slope.
So yes, I blame female nature and hook up culture, enabled by modern technology in the form of dating apps.
"Men kill people, women kill civilizations"
I have two sons as well. I was afraid it was something I did (or didn't do).
To parent a child, and do it well, is a life long commitment, requires putting your own interests aside, self sacrifice and looking to cover the needs of your child before yourself. We have collectively raised a self centered entitled generation, that in no way wants to put someone else before themselves. It’s that simple.
This! Spot on.
What do you know, another "Baffling" phenomenon! Just BAFFLING!
Is there anything more derogatory than the stay at home mom, in current modern society? Do you think it is somehow purely a coincidence?
The plan was launched in the late 60's and has been endlessly promoted for three generations. Its more important to be a taxpayer than a parent. Not an accident, planned and executed.
Well I can assure all adults, your employer's only value is to help raise your children. They, and the government that steals half your income, could care less about you.
You are being manipulated for your labor.
No children means no legacy, no sense of heritage. You're just a little consumer. A perfect entity for the elite.
A related thread: the medical establishment’s love for barrenness, to the point of deliberately deceiving women about the dangers or hormonal birth control. Plus their love of castration and abortion. It’s a true medical war on fertility itself.
More here:
https://thefederalist.com/2023/04/28/prescription-for-parents-vet-your-childs-doctors-they-no-longer-deserve-your-trust/
I do think there is a spiritual battle at play at least in part. To be fruitful and multiply is our Creator’s first and oft-repeated blessing to mankind in the Bible; the medical establishment seems to be far more pro Moloch….
Ps mark steyn wrote bestselling books about our demographic crisis decades ago and always laughed about how he knew all these world leaders read the books and told him in private that they agreed, but were too afraid to ever bring it up in public
We have seven kids and they’re tons of fun. But our lifestyle is definitely unique outside of our friend group. Lol. Do you have kids, Alex?
Yes, he has written of them.