248 Comments

I'm one of five and could roam freely all day during the summer as a child, from 3rd grade on. This mom is 100% right.

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But do you or would you allow your kids the same freedom? I have three boys (adults now) and I allowed them lots of freedom. I also spanked their asses which is still allowed despite all the propaganda in opposition to it.

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founding

Turns out free-range might give you a greater appreciation for freedom.

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One of FIVE - That's the key.

When you only have ONE, or (at most!) TWO - you think VERY differently as a mother. More and more mothers (and men who think like mothers) are running the world today.

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As a mom, I agree with this. I have always appreciated my husband's balanced perspective of letting go and letting wild in the parenting department, as I tended more toward "taking care" of the kids, even though I was raised with total freedom in the 70s. And, it's challenging to buck the parenting trends of today. You've got to have self confidence and not give a sh!t what others think of your parenting style...both difficult in today's social media driven, cancel culture world.

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Same here! I was the last of 5 kids and I always say I was a feral kid, raised by no one, haha. Not entirely true, as I had a very strict father who made sure we knew right from wrong. But, I had tremendous freedoms in my life and my parents were mostly absent from my daytime activities, as I was either in school or running around outside. I literally never hung around inside the house, and I grew up in northern Minnesota — in winter, we played outside same as summer. I raised two sons and always regretted not having more kids, as I had a niggling sense that more kids in a family made for a healthier dynamic of parenting. Raising "precious" kids = raising less healthy kids. And I think the precious part is related to the "safety" part.

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I grew up with two brothers in the 1970s, I'm in the middle. We left in the morning, we ate lunch at whatever location we were playing and returned home for dinner. We rode bikes, hiked, climbed, and yes did some mischief.

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Yes, 100%. I was born in the early 70's in Canada and it was basically a cause for shame among your friends when you were the first to be called in by your parents around 9 or 10 pm. We spent countless hours roaming around our local marsh; eventually finding the bottom of a packing crate to turn into a raft; we shot crabapples at each other from elastic guns made or sawed off hockey sticks and clothes-pegs. The amount of independence we had compared to what kids appear to have today was huge.

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Thanks for a trip down memory lane. Me too. We always felt sorry for the poor friends in our roving gang of neighborhood kids who got called inside the earliest.

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Absolutely. It's sort of a sick and crazy truism, but when you think like a dad, to some extent kids (boys in particular) are disposable - as are men (war). When you think like a mom - especially one with only one child - you think differently. Definitely not politically correct - but the most basic biology.

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My niece posts constantly about how dangerous it is to touch her infant, show’s pictures of babies with horrible skin rashes and says “ see this could happen”. It’s so bad she has a sign on her car seat and stroller saying stay back. She’s almost a year old and I still haven’t touched her. I come from a large family lots of babies they all get held and loved, we do not kiss their faces. We wash our hands, and would not even be there if we were sick. I wonder how life will be for her as she gets older. This isn’t fear it’s terror.

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My daughter told me when I was visiting my new grandbaby last week that her and her husband don't want people to kiss their baby, including family. She told me I couldn't kiss my grandchild. That stung (and I did it anyway when she wasn't looking.)

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Keep kissing that baby every chance you get;-)

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You know it! ☺️

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My elderly parents saw my kids every weekend during lockdowns and wouldn’t have it any other way. NEVER SICK! She’s the victim of a massive global psyop and ultimately it will only hurt her child. Sad.

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I think it is awesome that you kissed your grandchildren anyway!

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I work with several people who were forced to get the Covid vaccine because the pediatricians of their grandchildren were telling their kids not to allow any contact if the grandparents weren’t vaccinated. Heartbreaking.

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That's where a lie and a fake vaccine card comes in handy (which I have!)

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good on you, nana. (Although I'm a little concerned about the behind the back stuff).

But, allow me to add this: somewhen, as a wee lad, someone kissed me and gave me a case of HSV1 (oral herpes). Not too bad, an outbreak every once in a while, blah blah blah. Believe it or not, did not know what the outbreak was until grad school (we called it a canker sore at home 🙄) and when I married was very careful about when and where; AND esp around my son. Did not prevent affection, just more careful.

What I'm getting at is we do know so much more today, communicability and what-all, but physical affection is also important, perhaps even more important nowadays.

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I don’t have herpes. I’m not that stupid.

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BC, why so personal about a generalized comment. I was relating my experience, my concerns;…

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I guess it was just pretty left field, like obvio I wouldn't kiss a baby if I had a canker sore and I would never kiss a baby on the lips anyway, just cheek smooches.

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I would kiss that baby too. That's the joy of being a grandparent.

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I am so sorry for you.....glad you did it anyway that is downright cruel. I have heard so many similar stories, sadly.

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I wouldn't call my daughter cruel, she was very kind about it. I did tell her when the baby was 5 days old I definitely would not be getting my face into her face. I didn't expect her to tell me that when the baby was 4 weeks old. I certainly hope the same dictate isn't given when we come visit at Thanksgiving. I might have to say something to her if that's the case. Most ILI's (influenza like illnesses) are airborne so kissing will not make one iota of a difference.

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Oh my Gosh I am so sorry that it was interpreted that way I did not mean to call your daughter cruel! I just have some very dear friends who have been through similar and worse with handling their grandchildren and the whole situation seems cruel to me. Grandchildren are a precious gift and they are babies for only a minute!

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It's OK. I'm trained as a lawyer and I probably scrutinize words more than most.

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It’s astonishing how they do not understand what they are doing to their child’s immune system.

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founding

EXACTLY. They get runny noses for a reason.

All of this will come back to haunt the children of parents that treated their children as bubble-boys.

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If the child received the Covid vaxx, his/her immune system is already seriously altered, and not in a good way.

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Agreed.

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NEVER would she do that, she was hoodwinked into getting it herself and would not expose her daughter to that rubbish.

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When the covid shot became available for kids I begged my daughter not to have my grandchildren get it. She said, I'm glad you weren't anti-vax when I was little. I told her I'm not anti-vax just anti covid shot because it is not a vaccine. It does not prevent covid or keep it from spreading. I don't know if the kids got the shot. It's a touchy subject so I didn't ask.

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Also, today’s hyper moms expect everyone around their kids to be vaccinated against every imaginable illness. I have been “disinvited” from visiting babies because I choose not to be jabbed for COVID or any other possible illness.

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Friend of mine...soon to be a first time grandma, was told by her son, she needed to get an up to date TDap or forgo visiting his spawn! The world has gone mad!

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I was told how important TDaP was with my first. Whopping cough is scary... but what no one tells you is that the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission. It only makes you asymptomatic. Which is actually worst if you are deciding whether or not to be around a baby.

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GOOD POINT!

I hadn't thought about the danger(s) of being asymptomatic.

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Her son is, IMO, arrogant, presumptuous, disrespectful, and ignorant. My heart goes out to her - this outrageous behavior towards his mother is inexcusable.

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I never got a flu shot until my first grandchild was born & DIL insisted anyone who wanted to be around the baby had to get one. I gave in for the first few years ( he’s 13 now) , but no more. Funny thing- she was allergic to flu shots , so exempt from the rule🙂. She laid down the same rule for COVID vaccine. Even though we spent most of 2020 ( pre vaccines) helping the grandkids do their virtual at home schooling so parents could work. No problems at all & no COVID. Once vaccines became available spring of 2021, all of a sudden it was not safe for us grandparents to be with the kids unless we vaxxed. Crazy times - amazing we all made it through the land mines of the COVID experience with our relationships intact. I feel for the families that fractured. Of course it took a lot of self censorship on my part.

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As a parent of young kids... this is the messaging we receive from doctors, hospitals when going through pregnancy and childbirth. Please try not to blame the individuals when we are all part of a fear-generating medical system!

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Who cares what messages they get! They have a brain. USE IT!!

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Amen.

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At this point it is painfully obvious what is happening so stay strong and other parents will follow!! Always trust that super strong mothers instinct!

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I’ve already informed my adult children. It to expect me or my husband to get ANY shots to see our future grandchildren. They already know it so t happen. If they want to be in the will they will see it our way. Lol

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then you tell the son he can go fuck himself, go visit anyway and tell him to call the cops on her if he wants her removed. It is insanity.

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This is so sad - as a grandmother of 7, I am so thankful that my children have not withheld the privilege of holding and touching the children when they were babies. God gave our bodies a fabulous immune system that needs to be challenged to become stronger.

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20 years ago I knew a family who didn’t allow any outside visitors in their home for a year after having a baby. Germ protection and all that. Even immediate family like grandparents. I’ve wondered about the health and well being of that child today.

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I would call that insanity. Babies need human touch to thrive.

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She doesn’t know what she doesn’t know. Her approach will leave her child with a weakened immune system in the long run. Too bad.

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Now this is child abuse. This poor baby is so screwed.

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Love this! I’m a mom of five and this totally resonates. (Mine are older now -- 19-29) my solution was sports. Kept the kids outside, active, learning team work as well as individual skills. I’ve had parents criticize me because my younger refused to wear pants (he wore shorts no matter the temperature) and I got lectured by a stranger for leaving my sleeping baby in the car WITH my 10 year old watching him. I’m Gen X and miss the freedom I had growing up.

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I got paid to babysit at 10(during daytime) at 11 I started nights. $1.00 an hour.

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I took a babysitting class offered at the fire station when I was 10 and started babysitting -- the summer before I was 11 I made $2.50/hour to babysit four kids, the youngest 6 months. I rode my bike to their house, too.

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Me too! You must have grown up in the late 60s early 70s.

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I was born in 1969

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Sorry, I thought I was replying to Guylaine. I babysat for $1:00/hr. also.

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Bret Easton Ellis wrote a book about how being a Gen X'er shaped everything for him. It's called "White". I can't recommend it enough. It was so good I read it twice. As much as I think we benefited from the X experience, I can't help but wonder if the X'ers that grew up to parent became over the top helicopter parents because deep down they wish they had been paid more attention to. I was so independent, but I admit to keep close tabs on my two. Probably too much.

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My husband was more of a helicopter parent than me, and he's a "boomer" (8 years older.) He was more concerned about abductions and things like that. I was cautious, but I wasn't hyper concerned (except at large places, like the mall and Disneyland.) I think every generation looks back on their childhood fondly. But we also don't always remember the bad things (Like, gas prices in the 70s -- I remember having to wait in long lines with my mom, but ho, hum, it didn't really effect me.)

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Ha, ha! My youngest was the same - wore shorts to school for an entire year! He is 39 now and an awesome husband and father.

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The only time my youngest, now 19, wears pants is when required for church. There are other things I'm more concerned about -- respect, avoiding drug use, good grades, etc.

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I am childless and have watched with amusement and sometimes horror at how rabid new parents can be about their parenting choices. However, the tendency for people to comment and criticize how someone else is doing something extends beyond parenting. I am in the short term rentals business and am amazed at how ugly some “hosts” can be towards other hosts and how they run their business. Society seems to have increasing levels of righteousness and inflated views of their own skills and decisions. My way is THE way. And yes Covid made it all so much worse. Forgo your prom, your wedding, being with your parent on their deathbed to save “just one life”. But not the lives of children we abort. Who are we and what are we really afraid of?

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founding

The plandemic was a case study in the fallacy of the common good:

"If it saves one life" is tantamount to saying we must destroy many real lives, in order to save one on paper.

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Absolutely right.

If we stopped aborting, think of all the lives we would save, a point missed by Gavin Newsome, Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Andrew Cuomo and oh! so many others concerned about saving "...just one life".

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To them, the unborn child is not "a life."

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

Amen. If I had to grow up in today's world I have no doubt that at some point I would have contemplated suicide and I would never have achieved the kinds of things in my life that I have. Kids today are socially, emotionally, and intellectually crippled. I noted the other day to someone that by the time my father was in his mid 20s he had been to war, shot, returned home with a permanent disability, married, had his first child, gone to college on the GI bill, graduated early, and started a career with a prestigious accounting firm in NYC. The equivalent 25 year old today is still in their parent's basement.

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This is the crux of Jonathan Haidt's/Greg Lukianoff's thesis in The Coddling of the American Mind. During COVID, one of the things that amazed me was how blinded so many parents were when it came to the risks they take every day without a moment's thought while perpetuating hysteria of COVID's risks to them and their children. I tended to not spend time with parents like that, but I do know that the attempted shaming was a real thing. ("You're actually sending them into school?")

In May-June 2020, it was decided that the day camp where I work (I'm a teacher) and where my daughter is a camper would open. She, at 8 years old, was able to recognize how there was more to life than avoiding any risks at all costs. The camp ended up running at around half their normal capacity, and on one 8-year old's first day, he arrived crying hysterically (this was after we had completed our first week). "I'm scared!" he told me. "Of what?" I asked him (I honestly didn't realize what could have scared him so much, as he was a returning camper). "Coronavirus!" he told me. That was one of my first indications of the just how sick the fear-mongering of our children had gotten.

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One of five but we lived in a different world. Our parents never attended any sports activities ranging from Little League to CYO swim meets. Our job was to get there and get home for dinner. Take the bus or walk.

“ where did you go?” out

“ What did you do?” nothing

We ate rice krispies or frosted Flakes for breakfast and baloney sandwiches on white bread for lunch. We walked home from school for lunch. There was no school cafeteria.

We all grew up, no one was arrested, all graduated from college, and three of five earned postgraduate degrees.

We all had children, but three kids each was all we produced.

We did not worry about kidnappers in white windowless vans and car seats did not exist.

The present generation ( 20-35) grew up in a different world. All industrialized countries have low birth rates.

Sure, women work today and that is why the birth rate is lower. Once children were the fruit of love and the greatest thing we could produce, now a Gucci bag is what is desired.

The world has changed and the old world is gone.

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You just described my childhood. The independence we had was thrilling. No adults involved in our games. Football, kickball and sledding in the street, paused only when a kid yelled "Car!" We came home for dinner, and otherwise roamed freely.

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founding

That is rad! Good on your folks. That just summarized my childhood.

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It never ceased to amaze me when I dropped my kids off for soccer practice how many parents were setting up chairs and watching the entire practice. 1 hour watching 10 year old kids practice. More when they got older. I would go to most of their games, but watching them practice?

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founding

Shit. My loving mother temporarily forgot to pick us up a few times from baseball practice.

Those were some of the best practices for mischief!

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I forgot to pick up my kid from summer camp! In fairness I thought it was a Saturday pick up rather than a Friday, but we still laugh at what a “bad mom” I was.

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founding

Yeah it happens. My parents were separated for many years (although happily married now), so I understood. She had a lot going on, including an infant. It didn't bother my brother and I the few times she "forgot".

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If they dropped them off, chances are they have to pick them up in about an hour. Simplest answer

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All true. We have imprisoned our children and ourselves in the process.

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founding

Yup. The worst of all prisons:

The six inch prison between ears.

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I commuted by train and underground to school each day. From 10 to 16. An hour and half each way. It was the 70’s. And I was by myself. Parents never worried. Imagine that today.

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founding
Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

Great commentary. People ultimately don’t have children when they don’t have hope and optimism for the future. This is why the causes are so varied. But surely, some causes are more significant than others.

So, just a few compatible observations. She’s very right to flag the car seat issue; it’s entirely overlooked and it was lazy-minded boomers thinking of fecund Mexicans or foreigners when they reasoned their way into that little tyranny (American Christians long ago gave into the birth control gospel). It’s very hard to have a large family now as that entails a Church van (I know, as I have a converted one). It’s also expensive, prohibitively so for working and middle class families that otherwise can afford the extra children.

I’ve noted this before, but truly, central banking, and the inflation it causes, is a massive contributor to anti-natal views. It made them ever more expensive—and when combined with mandates everywhere like car seats—it’s not surprising Westerners reasoned their way into small families (or none at all).

The cultural zeitgeist of progressivism is a longer story but we all know it’s a major contributor. People scream for abortion today, and so on. It ultimately leads to depressive states of aimlessness. But it was these economic incentives that were arguably a necessary cause of the public’s acceptance of anti-natal views. Religion has also continued to dilute over time due to this.

A book could be written on Big Pharma’s contribution to Americans’ declining mental, physical and spiritual health, and fitness to have children.

Following the same pattern that incentives matter, safetyism did not arise in a vacuum. Between immigration of higher crime populations and people with no American traditions, the war on poverty and its effect in black and poor communities, and the governmental bias against firearms in gathering places, we just aren’t as safe and don’t feel as safe. In the 80’s it was mostly unheard of to see the knockout game, or rampant theft, zero border enforcement with fake refugees everywhere, or a homeless stabbing, occurring or encroaching in a middle class neighborhood. And criminals were generally punished, even though other abuses existed.

So I’m actually sympathetic to some of safetyism. While typing this very message in a Church courtyard in a Texas city, a homeless guy came up to the gate and became irate when he wasn’t immediately given food, and started pulling down his pants and spitting. You can’t even make this crap up!

We have such a mess today as a result of the progressive school of pseudo-liberalism that the solution, truly, is national divorce. Let people of goodwill gather in a few states, and let the Left have its SSRI addicted utopia.

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Yup. What she wrote. I see this with my grandchildren. Buckling and unbuckling all three at each stop. It will curtail the number of stops you make, or will encourage you to have another responsible person with you so that you can run in and out of a store and not have to take all of them with you. I even go to pediatrician appointments with my daughter to help her juggle.

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O. M. G.

My kids are now in their mid-30s and seem to be reasonably well adjusted and responsible. There are times when I don't know how we managed to accomplish this b/c there were interventions by OTHER PARENTS and school personnel who tried to derail it.

I have stories about my inadequate parenting as evidenced by sending my 8-year-old daughter to the corner store for milk; or my 6-year-old son was allowed to walk to his friend's house around the corner, and that I did not wait at the school bus stop that was clearly visible from our front door.

The other parents seemed to want to reinforce their obsessive behavior by criticizing me.

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Yes, 2 types of people in the world. Those that want to left alone (love Liberty) & those that want to control everything & everyone ( prone to tyrannical behavior).

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Wow, that’s actually surprising to me you were pulled up on that behavior in the 90s... I am the same age as your kids and all of this was very common when I was a kid. I’m sorry that happened!

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I sometimes wonder how much of it was a result of parochial school.

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And it all started with seat belt laws, the 55 mph speed limit, and (in the USA) the 21 drinking age and all its ancillary laws. Throw in the Satanic Panic and the culture wars, and the rest is history. It has been death by a thousand papercuts in the name of "Safety First" and "if it saves ONE life, it's worth it. Instead, we need to adopt the far more rational "Safety Third", and recognize that liberty and pursuit of happiness are also every bit as worth protecting along with life.

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Didn't Hitler invade Poland for the “ safety” of the Germans in Gdansk?

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Of course. "Safety" has always been a convenient pretext for all sorts of horrible things.

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Every time I struggle to open a child-proof (person-proof) container top and resort to using a sharp knife to break into it, I wonder how many people have been maimed due to the safety devices.

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I agree with this mom. We have ceded power to the government and given it the right to "co-parent".

An interesting paradox: "Big Brother" hinders growth milestones in favor of their perception of safety, but during Covid, encouraged giving an emergency use vaccine for children who were never likely to suffer from Covid...the excuse was that it would keep adults safe....WOW, I would never risk my grandkids health for mine no matter how great the risk to me or how small the risk to them.. My job is to keep them safe not the other way around......and having kids take this risk seems silly when those same kids can't walk to the park.

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Schools contribute to this issue. In California when my son was in 2nd grade he was ready to ride his bike to school. He was aware to only cross on a green light and even if green to check for cars. He got there safely but he was told (and I was called) that he wasn't old enough to ride his bike to school. Also, they didn't allow any sports at recess that could result in a bloody nose or even a fall. In my opinion this was part of growing up and there are a lot of things worse then a few stiches.

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