Not a win for me! I am naturally immune, check my antibodies monthly and I will lose my teaching job of 22 years on October 18th in Washington State because I will not take the vaccine. It is 100% not medically necessary for me right now.
Take it from someone who was forced to resign from my employer back in late 2009, when the hospital system for 5 hospitals mandated everyone get flu shots, and I had a negative reaction 10 years earlier.
But, no, if I didn’t get the shot and risk an anaphylactic reaction, I was going to be fired and have it on my net national practitioner data Bank record for the rest of my life!
And people think I was outrageous when I told the Vice President of medical first to go F himself, I had no problem with that! But, that got heard, and I wasn’t worried about being persona non grata with that hospital system, they are known for their hideous abuse of physicians these last 12 years…
Sorry folks, the medical profession is now officially dead to me, and I’m a physician!
The corruption, immorality, and lack of concern for the public, what I know is a majority of physicians , even if it’s 50.01%, it’s disgusting despicable vile and deserving of charges of malpractice and malfeasance!
Doctors know what’s going on with this virus, they’re more concerned about how it plays out politically, not prudently, not responsibly, and certainly not by clinical standards!
What’s going to happen when a patient is killed because of ongoing negligence and abject refusal of providing care, do you think the families are going to talk to these doctors again?
But, let’s keep doing the dance of civility tolerance and acquiescence, it’s going to be so effective…
🤐: again, once they can’t get away with masks, they’re just gonna hold you down and suture your lips closed…
I work at a hospital that has mandated vaccines, with no exemption for staff that have recovered from COVID. I asked, via email, multiple questions about the data to support this decision, along with questions about the legality of forcing people to take a vaccine that may not be clinically necessary for those who have recovered. None of those questions have been answered.
Information sessions were set up for doctors and a pharmacist to answer questions about the vaccines. Though I'm vaccinated, I attended the sessions to hear the rationale behind the decision. The hospital president started the session by sounding surprised that he received "thoughtful" questions from staff about the mandate...as if people who have not received the vaccine are idiots that couldn't possibly have legitimate reasons behind not receiving the vaccine. He also said he wasn't able, at that time, to answer the legal and ethical questions staff have about the mandate...what?!? I was disappointed, but not surprised, when I realized the session was really just a time to reinforce CDC talking points, instead of answer actual questions that may address vaccine hesitancy. One of the infectious disease doctors on the panel said that there is not way for doctors to determine if someone has natural immunity so that shouldn't figure into the discussion. But I keep hearing and reading about testing this kind of testing...so again, what?!? Another information session focused on women with questions about fertility, pregnancy, etc... When asked about vaccine safety in women who have had previous high-risk pregnancies, an OB on the call said that women in that circumstance don't need to speak to their doctor...just take the shot, it's safe. It may be safe, but to tell someone with those specific concerns to not speak with a physician to review specific concerns related to medical history struck me as irresponsible.
Of course this was all being discussed at a time when vaccine efficacy was declining in Israel...which I knew about because of Alex's reporting...which my hospital's administrators obviously don't follow.
Thanks for your response. It is amazing how uninformed the people that are making and enforcing these mandates are. There is tons coming out about natural immunity but it just seems our government is making decisions with data that is a year old.
The government is flying the plane into the side of a mountain. I have no confidence in the CDC or any of our public health institutions. And that's just sad.
You have to ask yourself, these people who dismiss concerns, you have to wonder what their liability could be if someone has a horrific negative outcome, and I am not just talking about lawsuits…
Before making any massive decision, I would think that businesses would think about the worst possible outcome and how they could defend the decision if that outcome occurred. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case. Perhaps that would require too much critical thinking as opposed to mob mentality. Maybe they'll think about consequences when/if something horrible happens to an employee.
Administrators are trapped, cornered by hysterical mobs. If they don't acquiesce to the mobs, they'll lose business. If they submit, they'll lose employees, and business. They all hope someone will subdue the mobs so they can get back to business. But those who can, don't, because they're part of the scam.
I'm not sure if this has happened in other states, but in Kentucky, where I live, all hospitals (except for a few independent facilities) across the state came together to put this mandate into place. So basically if someone wants to work in healthcare in KY, then they have to take the vaccine. I assumed that the vaccine would be mandated in hospitals, since other vaccines and screenings are as well...we're used to it. But to deny natural immunity is to deny science.
If a person can prove natural immunity with a lab test that should be that. According to what I have read it is medically contraindicated to get these jabs and coming boosters once naturally immune.
I would be lawyering up, especially since the most severe possible adverse reaction to the jab is death.
I am 71 and a retired RN. I would figure out any possible way to never get their jabs.
since vaccines "exploit" our immune system and attempt to mimic natural immunity, these idiot mandators who claim natural immunity is not enough are disparaging their wonderful vaccines. but I wouldn't expect THEM to understand that.
It's like paying taxes. Nobody likes it but we all do it. For the greater good, allegedly, though clearly greater good for some than for others. It's just another coxt-benefit calculation. Losing your job is a practical cost of not getting vaxed. Most arguments, for and against, are emotional, not practical.
We don’t pay taxes for “the greater good.” We pay taxes because men with guns will come and haul us away if we don’t pay them. I’m not just “being emotional” because I don’t want a bureaucrat that has never even seen my face (that I’ve worked for for 15 years) decide that I need an unnecessary and possibly dangerous medical treatment every six months. I…will….quit….
Medical error is one of the leading causes of death (top 5?) in America. Big pharma have an excellent track record of bringing drugs to the market that kill, recalling them and then paying fines that are a fraction of revenue generated.
Before Covid19, the bankers have managed to convince me that they are the evil scumbags. After a year of observing FDA-Big Pharma-Media-Politicians up close in action, I am convinced that the health industry is far more insidious than the banking industry.
Thank goodness for practitioners who are trying everything to beat this thing early from hydroxychloroquine to ivermectin rather than just telling people to come back when they can’t breathe!
So sorry....their loss! WA state has had some crazy Covid restrictions, visited Seattle in Nov 2020 and the outdoor masking while walking alone on a sidewalk, almost drove me insane. Same on Whidby Island...people out in the wide open on the beach with a mask on. Going back (daughter lives there) in September and I fear it will get crazy again there. At least we will be in the San Juan Islands and not in Seattle.
So sorry! As a person who has been in pain a lifetime from a medical error 28 years ago I respect you for your courage not to get it. We are in such a fool, ridiculous, insane time when it seems like everything we ever learned medically is out the window. Its so frustrating. I will pray that God Blesses you with a better job and somehow you get through this.
Perhaps you can get a job serving the execs at Phizer on their new yachts? Jolisa, your story is typical of millions (like me) with natural immunity who will not take a vaccine that traditionally weakens your immune system. What is going on? How can this possibly be happening? Most of the rest of the world respects natural immunity. I am sorry for what this country has become.
Thank you, Alex. Great reporting. Very happy to be a paid subscriber to your Substack. I have nothing to add except that I find what's going on to use this to control people in Australia, France, the UK, not to mention here in the US way more frightening than Covid.
I have been practically licking doorknobs for 16 months and nary a sniffle. I got an antibodies test and it was negative! Can someone please mail me an infected lollipop or what else do I have to do to catch the deadliest more virulent disease in history?
My girlfriend got COVID a couple of months ago, so I had to isolate with her. We were living in close proximity for 10 days without a break and during that time we were making out, she cooked for me whilst coughing all over the meals, she coughed all over me many times, we slept together, we cuddled, etc. I made no attempt to avoid infection because hey, everyone knows Delta is super infectious, so I figured I was bound to get it from her no matter what and there was no point pussyfooting around trying to avoid it.
10 days later - nothing. No symptoms, negative tests, nothing.
It turns out contact tracing data says 90% of people in the home don't get it from a housemate who's infected. Or so I read.
Conclusion: I must have some sort of pre-existing natural immunity that either predates COVID, or I got it at some point and never noticed. So yeah. If literally kissing an infected person every day doesn't do it, licking a few doorknobs ain't gonna do it either.
LOL, it did take me 10 days to get infected from my hubs. I didn't go so far as to "make out" as he was not feeling well, but we did sleep in the same bed. But eventually I did get it and honestly, I was pretty happy I did because I just wanted it over with!! That was back in November and I'm not getting even one dose, I will rely on my immune system, thank you very much.
I had same situation with my family. wife got it, both kids got it. Ok - I didn't swap spit with her but slept in the same bed etc. Never got it. Although I haven't checked my antibodies yet. No doubt we had some sort of pre-existing cellular immunity. I'm a surgeon so I have been exposed to alot of respiratory pathogens over the years.
Not at all that unusual. The wife of the infected guy on the Princess cruise ship never was ill despite the closed quarters. Some suggest that residual mumps antibodies get activated as protection. One might imagine those who are, in fact, immune would be of intense medical interest to try to understand why. Instead we lept into containment protocols (lockdown, isolation, etc) to stop the unstoppable. We wear silly pieces of gauze to inform others we are aware of danger. The Navy ship had a lot of cases and even some serious ones, but a study wasn't conducted (AFIK) on why some never got ill and others were mildly infected in an ideal small population.
Be good to get citations for any such studies. I can't recall Alex addressing the issue. I do recall a reference early on noting that mumps antibodies were reacting to CoV-2 but that mumps antibody titers did decline over time. Since all in the military receive all those routine shots upon service entry, they might be better primed. Other than that reference I've seen very little published data on those who evaded illness despite exposure.
Check out my newsletter for some discussion. We don't know all the factors because immune response between individuals varies widely, fir many reasons. There are at least dozens of relevant factors, probably hundreds. The best we can do is try to improve as many of those factors in ourselves as we can. The problem with studies is they only get funded for orthodox objectives, and are always tightly focused on individual factors in a multi factor environment.
Antibodies are always temporary. The body doesn't keep things we don't need. The important robust immune reaction is memory B and T cells which stand guard and generate antibodies on demand. Haven't seen evidence the rna vaxes do that. If they only produce antibodies and not memory cells, we know going in they're temporary.
The advantage military populations have is they're mostly young and healthy. This virus fails in the young and healthy.
And in this world of big data we can't do multi-factor analyses? I suppose the issue is what data to collect from those immunes. I do know we hardly know about our own biome.
Have you had an antibody test? Cheap and easy. A large portion of people have been infected and didn't know. This virus fails quickly against a healthy immune system. The good thing is while infected with your girlfriend's virus you might have made new antibodies against a different version. Like an upgrade. I suggest more cuddling to be sure.
I had it, was quite ill but stayed home. My husband and I did not keep our distance- he didn't get sick and he has no antibodies. I assume he has some innate immunity.
I've read that past coronavirus infection could confer some immunity or perhaps some people have stellar immune systems. I know many families where the kid had it and parents never got it.
Yes, there is definitely the possibility of preexisting immunity from previous infections. I am pretty certain Suneptra Gupta (Oxford) initially estimated that 25% of the population would have preexisting immunity.
Normal immune health destroys this virus quickly. Numerous surveys of allegedly unaffected people show a lot of them have antibodies.8 billion people, only 4 million dead. Pretty good odds.
Same here. I live with teenagers who've had it too! Did everything I could to keep my immune system strong (rarely wore mask, traveled, dined indoors, etc.) Maybe some prior exposure?
Suggest Sturgis Motorcycle clubs and events. They are having a spike in cases, one hears. Please also report to us if you find any covid there. Do doorknobs taste good?
The hilariousness of the press attributing the rising South Dakota wave to Sturgis - so South Dakota wasn't *going* to have another wave at the same time as last year, just like most places except the northeast? We're the same superstitious species that we've always been.
If anything V-Twin motorcycles seem to afford protection from COVID. We should mandate them and try to get an V-Twin EUA for kids aged 5-11 from the FDA ASAP.
I think I'm up a creek without a paddle. Had not been vaxxed and am just recovered from having covid. Now I'm really afraid to get any of the vaccines as there are dire tales of bad reactions for those having natural immunity who get jabbed. Can't get on a cruise ship without a vaccine "passport," can't go out to eat in New York City, can't enroll in a course at many colleges. When will someone with some COMMON SENSE realize that your can't one-size-fits-all for 300 million+ persons!
Agree with you totally but do you really WANT to do any/all those things or are you just pissed (as I am) that those things are not available to me (even though I don't really want to go do them...) I'm not saying the segregation is right or ok, it is not.
Cruise ships are great places to catch all kinds of nasty diseases. NYC is a shithole thanks to DeBlah-blah-blah, you'd probably get mugged. And give your $ to a college that isn't a bunch of science denying idiots. Just my 2 cents. (I am unvaxed and an "I believe in my Immune System Conspiracist"!)
Good news. Googled natural immunity and now first 4 entries reflect that it is more protective than vaccination including Science, Bloomberg, and Fortune. The talking MD heads haven’t got the message yet but they will.
WHY does every study contain this line, "The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and then received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated." No study will conclude natural immunity is sufficient, it's as if they are scared to say so. Maybe I am content with my natural immunity and don't want to take *any* risk of taking a vaccine (because the side effects do seem to be greater when the previously infected are given the vaccine.)
Such disclaimers also don't account for the yet unknown duration of that superfluous "protection." There is no reason to imagine that juicing up antibodies with vaccines "protects" the previously infected for more than a few months, just as it only prevents infection for a few months in all other recipients.
I have read that if one is naturally immune, the jab disregulates the immune system. That's just a sales pitch that the jab makes it better. Most publications are on the take from pharma/Gates and the like, so the researchers have to equivocate to get the paper out. Also, when the study was done is critical. Newer ones show different results.
Alex - your work is greatly appreciated (read: I signed up for a paid sub!). Solid, fact-based journalism, unfortunately, has become rare.
At some point, I'd love to have your insights on the various C-19 treatment options that are not being reported on in the MSM.
If one does find oneself with C-19 symptoms, immediately begin taking some for of C-19 treatment cocktail.
The goal is to avoid letting C-19 get severe. If C-19 gets severe AND you've got a comorbidity (or multiples), you're in for a potentially nasty experience. With early treatment, you most likely can avoid this.
If our Gov, Docs, etc...were sincerely trying to help us, they'd be all over treatments. Not so much on vaccinations.
I am the new, proud owner of natural immunity! I spent one day in the hospital last week, and today I took my dog on a 2.4 mile walk. Even though I haven't regained taste and smell, I'm feeling better every day. Where is my t-shirt? I want my t-shirt!
US is probably the only country in the world that doesn't recognize natural immunity. The evidence is piling up enough that even the corrupt pharma shills won't be able to suppress it for long. I especially like the January report "Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19" from. NIAID web site. Apparently fauxi doesn't read his own reports.
The Blaze has an article this week "15 Studies Natural Immunity from Infection More Robust than COVID Vaccines" that summarizes and links a lot of evidence.
They attempt to get around this by the recommendation that you get vaccinated for added protection or some kind of "super immunity" which even if true requires that you ignore any risks of getting vaccinated, ignore the increasingly obvious limitations of the immunity provided by the vaccine and ignore any risks of compromising your natural immunity
The question is whether submissive Americans are too stupid to realize they're being manipulated, or too timid to do anything about it. At this point, passive resistance seems the best approach, but some folks are getting more aggressive. It might get ugly before long, when the stupid become aware, and the timid find their strength. Maybe the coming election campaigns will resolve it peacefully. Maybe not. California is the next big test.
I've read that people who contracted SARS 17 years ago remain immune to both SARS and COVID. Since those two viruses are similar enough that scientists gave them the same name, it seems reasonable to believe that they'd generate similarly durable immunity.
"the second BNT162b2 vaccine dose results in a reduction of cellular immunity in COVID-19 recovered individuals, which suggests that a second dose, according to the current standard regimen of vaccination, may be not necessary in individuals previously infected with SARS-CoV-2."
Thanks for the great reporting. Wish there was more we could do. I will be losing my teaching job in Connecticut on 9/27. This will be my 15th year teaching and I have never had a mark on my file and have had all good reviews.
The sad part is, the community I teach in is very liberal so they make you feel like a villain/outcast for not getting the vax.
It’s a hard job to give up. Wish the union would do something but they keep saying it’s a law and there’s nothing they can do.
Some have suggested having a lawyer draw up an agreement between you and your employer: make them liable for anything that goes wrong as a result of the jab. They will support your family if you can't, etc
Another idea is to become a private teacher for a group of kids.
About time you vote with your feet. Teachers are universally needed, pick a spot. With some systems, they will pay to relocate. I hear Idaho is quite nice.
I'm so sorry that you were in that situation. I sure would make them put everything in writing so that you perhaps could sue for damages later. They are totally violating all principles of science and decency.
One of the most important derivative questions is...who's already had C19? Officially there are 215 million cases in the world, but this is too low. Many don't get tested (symptomatic or asymptotic). Also these tests don't test for t-cells, yet t-cells are more important and last longer.
This means many of these C19 rules are MADNESS! They are telling paper to wear mask, shut down businesses, get vaccinated, etc...when in all likelyhood they ALREADY had C19! That's shutting the barn door after the horse escaped. If the public were aware of the true infection rate and how widespread it was...that would do more to end our medical dictatorship than anything else. All these Covid-fascists are acting because they think they/we haven't gotten the disease yet when they likely already did.
Positive for Covid 19 in 11/2020 with robust antibodies to date. I had the antibodies test after 6mos (150x baseline immunity) and 9mos (230x baseline immunity). Will schedule for another test at 12mos. Performing my own study of 1. ;)
I went to a clinic three weeks after my initial positive test to get tested for antibodies. Had to pay for it- $30- but it was worth it. Independent clinics are testing, at least in Montana.
They are working on self-administered/internet tests, but there are none available now (that I know of...could be wrong). Otherwise you go to a doctor and they can do a blood draw. But note, those tests under-report C19 antibodies because they don't test t-cells (too tricky/expensive).
Given that your body isn't going to produce antibodies absent an active encounter with the virus, even if you're not producing antibodies, there's nothing saying you haven't been infected and are now at least partially or fully immune. We're not constantly producing antibodies for measles or chicken pox although most of us have had or been vaccinated against both. That's my problem with the whole "testing for antibodies" schtick. I was tested. I didn't have any. But my husband was around someone who had COVID for an extended period of time, and this person ended up having a pretty bad case of it, and we're both fine. There are only two explanations for this: (1) We have bulletproof immune systems (which is doubtful) or (2) we had it at some point and carry immunity even if we're not actively producing antibodies. The second is more likely. Yet they still want to shove a vaccine on us. I know we're not alone in that position.
Yes. Antibody Fever is a racket; it only serves to market vaccine boosters in the end. Now that the link between previous infection and rarity of later infection has been established, we should throw all these antibody tests in the trash and move on with life.
I just noticed the publication date on the Atlantic magazine’s Berenson is the « wrongest man » article. It is April 1, April Fool’s Day. Any significance there?
Upshot is that vaccinated individuals have much higher antibody titres at first than naturally infected individuals, but the titres decrease much more rapidly such that after three months (and thereafter) naturally acquired immunity is progressively more protective than vaccine-induced immunity.
My working theory has been that it is much easier for virus to evolve to beat the single-protein-targeting antibodies and B cells created by the vaccines (and that the mass vaccination program itself is causing the selective pressure for the virus to so evolve) than it is to evolve to beat the multi-protein-targeting antibodies and B cells created by natural immunity, which is why the vaccines are failing against the Delta and Lambda variants which exhibit mutations to the S protein targeted by the vaccines.
These guys throw some cold water on that idea however, noting that “The BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccine has been shown to stimulate production of antibodies to several SARS-CoV-2 proteins, not just the spike protein, suggesting that the vaccine provides short-term protection against variant strains(Amanat et al., 2021; Turner et al., 2021b). Combining these results with ours suggests that the recent surge in breakthrough infections in fully vaccinated individuals is due at least in part to declining levels of antibodies and not solely due to the variant strains of SARS-CoV-2.” This is different from what I have read from
other studies, but assuming arguendo it is true, then there is still the puzzle of why titres decrease so much more quickly in vaccinated individuals than naturally infected individuals given that both routes appear to stimulate memory B cell production.
In any event however, regardless of the mechanism, none of this is inconsistent with the thesis that the way these vaccines work is to create a strong initial immune response to the spike protein (thus the high initial levels of antibodies), but generate antibodies that are either less robustly protective across mutations and/or that do not continue to be produced past a few months despite the creation of memory B cells, for some as yet unknown reason.
Given these facts, I conclude that:
(a) mass vaccination will fail quickly without routine boosters due to the rapid drop in antibody titres, and will also spur the development of vaccine resistant variants the same way mass prescription of antibiotics does, and
(b) creating a hyperactive immune response every few months to fight a disease that most people are at very little risk from is a terrible risk-reward tradeoff, as routinely creating the inflammation of a hyperactive immune response will inevitably create autoimmune issues like arthritis and thrombocytopenia, the latter of which is already a known if rare side effect of the first round of vaccines (see, e.g., https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8336989/). Worse, the risk of autoimmune issues will increase with each booster dose as the body suffers progressively more inflammation from the repeated strong immune responses.
"Worse, the risk of autoimmune issues will increase with each booster dose as the body suffers progressively more inflammation from the repeated strong immune responses." This is it in a nutshell. I can't help but wonder if our government is being stupid or malicious here, but there's a reason why I used Wile E. Coyote in the graphic for my article discussing how these booster shots were probably going to backfire. I'm just sad that people are likely going to get hurt over this. They should be promoting treatments instead. Pardon the self-promo, but I wrote about this here: https://wholistic.substack.com/p/fda-vaccine-approval-gamble
Look at tables 2a and 2b of that study at the 0-29 day mean values for vaxed and NI. 12153 vs. 1914 for NI. That's an enormous difference??? If the vaxed started with a titer similar to NI say around 2000, the detectable levels would only last 3 months for vaxed vs. 6 for NI. Also, the scatter diagram on figure 2a/2b which are logarithmic show similar dropping off for all the patients. If not for the log scale, it would jump off the page with the 10x differential.
Coco, from all that I've been reading including the study you reference, I think you are spot on. Someone else asked the question why is the dose of the vax so high to create titers that are 10-15x what are seen in recovered persons with natural immunity. I don't know the answer, but given the rapid decline in detectable antibodies for the vaxed, had you dosed to create a lower titer, starting off with something that was similar to NI's, wouldn't the efficacy of the vax have then dropped off at 1-2 months rather than 6? Something to think about. The question is did they know this during the initial trials that were truncated? I don't know, but it's something to consider.
Not a win for me! I am naturally immune, check my antibodies monthly and I will lose my teaching job of 22 years on October 18th in Washington State because I will not take the vaccine. It is 100% not medically necessary for me right now.
Take it from someone who was forced to resign from my employer back in late 2009, when the hospital system for 5 hospitals mandated everyone get flu shots, and I had a negative reaction 10 years earlier.
But, no, if I didn’t get the shot and risk an anaphylactic reaction, I was going to be fired and have it on my net national practitioner data Bank record for the rest of my life!
And people think I was outrageous when I told the Vice President of medical first to go F himself, I had no problem with that! But, that got heard, and I wasn’t worried about being persona non grata with that hospital system, they are known for their hideous abuse of physicians these last 12 years…
Sorry folks, the medical profession is now officially dead to me, and I’m a physician!
The corruption, immorality, and lack of concern for the public, what I know is a majority of physicians , even if it’s 50.01%, it’s disgusting despicable vile and deserving of charges of malpractice and malfeasance!
Doctors know what’s going on with this virus, they’re more concerned about how it plays out politically, not prudently, not responsibly, and certainly not by clinical standards!
What’s going to happen when a patient is killed because of ongoing negligence and abject refusal of providing care, do you think the families are going to talk to these doctors again?
But, let’s keep doing the dance of civility tolerance and acquiescence, it’s going to be so effective…
🤐: again, once they can’t get away with masks, they’re just gonna hold you down and suture your lips closed…
I work at a hospital that has mandated vaccines, with no exemption for staff that have recovered from COVID. I asked, via email, multiple questions about the data to support this decision, along with questions about the legality of forcing people to take a vaccine that may not be clinically necessary for those who have recovered. None of those questions have been answered.
Information sessions were set up for doctors and a pharmacist to answer questions about the vaccines. Though I'm vaccinated, I attended the sessions to hear the rationale behind the decision. The hospital president started the session by sounding surprised that he received "thoughtful" questions from staff about the mandate...as if people who have not received the vaccine are idiots that couldn't possibly have legitimate reasons behind not receiving the vaccine. He also said he wasn't able, at that time, to answer the legal and ethical questions staff have about the mandate...what?!? I was disappointed, but not surprised, when I realized the session was really just a time to reinforce CDC talking points, instead of answer actual questions that may address vaccine hesitancy. One of the infectious disease doctors on the panel said that there is not way for doctors to determine if someone has natural immunity so that shouldn't figure into the discussion. But I keep hearing and reading about testing this kind of testing...so again, what?!? Another information session focused on women with questions about fertility, pregnancy, etc... When asked about vaccine safety in women who have had previous high-risk pregnancies, an OB on the call said that women in that circumstance don't need to speak to their doctor...just take the shot, it's safe. It may be safe, but to tell someone with those specific concerns to not speak with a physician to review specific concerns related to medical history struck me as irresponsible.
Of course this was all being discussed at a time when vaccine efficacy was declining in Israel...which I knew about because of Alex's reporting...which my hospital's administrators obviously don't follow.
Thanks for your response. It is amazing how uninformed the people that are making and enforcing these mandates are. There is tons coming out about natural immunity but it just seems our government is making decisions with data that is a year old.
The government is flying the plane into the side of a mountain. I have no confidence in the CDC or any of our public health institutions. And that's just sad.
You have to ask yourself, these people who dismiss concerns, you have to wonder what their liability could be if someone has a horrific negative outcome, and I am not just talking about lawsuits…
Before making any massive decision, I would think that businesses would think about the worst possible outcome and how they could defend the decision if that outcome occurred. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case. Perhaps that would require too much critical thinking as opposed to mob mentality. Maybe they'll think about consequences when/if something horrible happens to an employee.
Administrators are trapped, cornered by hysterical mobs. If they don't acquiesce to the mobs, they'll lose business. If they submit, they'll lose employees, and business. They all hope someone will subdue the mobs so they can get back to business. But those who can, don't, because they're part of the scam.
Most administrators are the mob. They love controlling their employees.
I'm not sure if this has happened in other states, but in Kentucky, where I live, all hospitals (except for a few independent facilities) across the state came together to put this mandate into place. So basically if someone wants to work in healthcare in KY, then they have to take the vaccine. I assumed that the vaccine would be mandated in hospitals, since other vaccines and screenings are as well...we're used to it. But to deny natural immunity is to deny science.
If a person can prove natural immunity with a lab test that should be that. According to what I have read it is medically contraindicated to get these jabs and coming boosters once naturally immune.
I would be lawyering up, especially since the most severe possible adverse reaction to the jab is death.
I am 71 and a retired RN. I would figure out any possible way to never get their jabs.
yes....
to deny natural immunity is to deny science....
but also...
since vaccines "exploit" our immune system and attempt to mimic natural immunity, these idiot mandators who claim natural immunity is not enough are disparaging their wonderful vaccines. but I wouldn't expect THEM to understand that.
It's like paying taxes. Nobody likes it but we all do it. For the greater good, allegedly, though clearly greater good for some than for others. It's just another coxt-benefit calculation. Losing your job is a practical cost of not getting vaxed. Most arguments, for and against, are emotional, not practical.
We don’t pay taxes for “the greater good.” We pay taxes because men with guns will come and haul us away if we don’t pay them. I’m not just “being emotional” because I don’t want a bureaucrat that has never even seen my face (that I’ve worked for for 15 years) decide that I need an unnecessary and possibly dangerous medical treatment every six months. I…will….quit….
Medical error is one of the leading causes of death (top 5?) in America. Big pharma have an excellent track record of bringing drugs to the market that kill, recalling them and then paying fines that are a fraction of revenue generated.
Before Covid19, the bankers have managed to convince me that they are the evil scumbags. After a year of observing FDA-Big Pharma-Media-Politicians up close in action, I am convinced that the health industry is far more insidious than the banking industry.
Q: What's the difference between a doctor and a plumber? A: I trust my plumber.
And the plumber usually actually FIXES something.
Not "when." Over half a million already in the US, many of whom could have been saved by competent treatment.
Like this: https://rcm.imrpress.com/article/2020/2153-8174/RCM2020264.shtml
Thank goodness for practitioners who are trying everything to beat this thing early from hydroxychloroquine to ivermectin rather than just telling people to come back when they can’t breathe!
We need lots of teachers in Florida
So sorry....their loss! WA state has had some crazy Covid restrictions, visited Seattle in Nov 2020 and the outdoor masking while walking alone on a sidewalk, almost drove me insane. Same on Whidby Island...people out in the wide open on the beach with a mask on. Going back (daughter lives there) in September and I fear it will get crazy again there. At least we will be in the San Juan Islands and not in Seattle.
Check this out https://www.rutherford.org/files_images/general/2021_Vaccine_Exemption_Fact_Sheet.pdf
Thank you for the information. I appreciate any help I can get.
So sorry! As a person who has been in pain a lifetime from a medical error 28 years ago I respect you for your courage not to get it. We are in such a fool, ridiculous, insane time when it seems like everything we ever learned medically is out the window. Its so frustrating. I will pray that God Blesses you with a better job and somehow you get through this.
Perhaps you can get a job serving the execs at Phizer on their new yachts? Jolisa, your story is typical of millions (like me) with natural immunity who will not take a vaccine that traditionally weakens your immune system. What is going on? How can this possibly be happening? Most of the rest of the world respects natural immunity. I am sorry for what this country has become.
Thank you, Alex. Great reporting. Very happy to be a paid subscriber to your Substack. I have nothing to add except that I find what's going on to use this to control people in Australia, France, the UK, not to mention here in the US way more frightening than Covid.
Viruses come and go. The loss of freedom may be somewhat more permanent.
So true !
https://mises.org/wire/vaccine-mandates-and-great-reset
Amen and Absolutely
I have been practically licking doorknobs for 16 months and nary a sniffle. I got an antibodies test and it was negative! Can someone please mail me an infected lollipop or what else do I have to do to catch the deadliest more virulent disease in history?
Infected lollipops won't work.
My girlfriend got COVID a couple of months ago, so I had to isolate with her. We were living in close proximity for 10 days without a break and during that time we were making out, she cooked for me whilst coughing all over the meals, she coughed all over me many times, we slept together, we cuddled, etc. I made no attempt to avoid infection because hey, everyone knows Delta is super infectious, so I figured I was bound to get it from her no matter what and there was no point pussyfooting around trying to avoid it.
10 days later - nothing. No symptoms, negative tests, nothing.
It turns out contact tracing data says 90% of people in the home don't get it from a housemate who's infected. Or so I read.
Conclusion: I must have some sort of pre-existing natural immunity that either predates COVID, or I got it at some point and never noticed. So yeah. If literally kissing an infected person every day doesn't do it, licking a few doorknobs ain't gonna do it either.
LOL, it did take me 10 days to get infected from my hubs. I didn't go so far as to "make out" as he was not feeling well, but we did sleep in the same bed. But eventually I did get it and honestly, I was pretty happy I did because I just wanted it over with!! That was back in November and I'm not getting even one dose, I will rely on my immune system, thank you very much.
I had same situation with my family. wife got it, both kids got it. Ok - I didn't swap spit with her but slept in the same bed etc. Never got it. Although I haven't checked my antibodies yet. No doubt we had some sort of pre-existing cellular immunity. I'm a surgeon so I have been exposed to alot of respiratory pathogens over the years.
Not at all that unusual. The wife of the infected guy on the Princess cruise ship never was ill despite the closed quarters. Some suggest that residual mumps antibodies get activated as protection. One might imagine those who are, in fact, immune would be of intense medical interest to try to understand why. Instead we lept into containment protocols (lockdown, isolation, etc) to stop the unstoppable. We wear silly pieces of gauze to inform others we are aware of danger. The Navy ship had a lot of cases and even some serious ones, but a study wasn't conducted (AFIK) on why some never got ill and others were mildly infected in an ideal small population.
They have studies, just don't like the answers. Anything doesn't agree with the orthodoxy "sell more vax" gets banned.
Be good to get citations for any such studies. I can't recall Alex addressing the issue. I do recall a reference early on noting that mumps antibodies were reacting to CoV-2 but that mumps antibody titers did decline over time. Since all in the military receive all those routine shots upon service entry, they might be better primed. Other than that reference I've seen very little published data on those who evaded illness despite exposure.
Check out my newsletter for some discussion. We don't know all the factors because immune response between individuals varies widely, fir many reasons. There are at least dozens of relevant factors, probably hundreds. The best we can do is try to improve as many of those factors in ourselves as we can. The problem with studies is they only get funded for orthodox objectives, and are always tightly focused on individual factors in a multi factor environment.
Antibodies are always temporary. The body doesn't keep things we don't need. The important robust immune reaction is memory B and T cells which stand guard and generate antibodies on demand. Haven't seen evidence the rna vaxes do that. If they only produce antibodies and not memory cells, we know going in they're temporary.
The advantage military populations have is they're mostly young and healthy. This virus fails in the young and healthy.
And in this world of big data we can't do multi-factor analyses? I suppose the issue is what data to collect from those immunes. I do know we hardly know about our own biome.
Have you had an antibody test? Cheap and easy. A large portion of people have been infected and didn't know. This virus fails quickly against a healthy immune system. The good thing is while infected with your girlfriend's virus you might have made new antibodies against a different version. Like an upgrade. I suggest more cuddling to be sure.
I had it, was quite ill but stayed home. My husband and I did not keep our distance- he didn't get sick and he has no antibodies. I assume he has some innate immunity.
My question as well. Could some people have immunity somehow and never get infected at all?
I've read that past coronavirus infection could confer some immunity or perhaps some people have stellar immune systems. I know many families where the kid had it and parents never got it.
Yes, there is definitely the possibility of preexisting immunity from previous infections. I am pretty certain Suneptra Gupta (Oxford) initially estimated that 25% of the population would have preexisting immunity.
Those without immunity but a healthy immune system develop immunity quickly upon exposure.
Normal immune health destroys this virus quickly. Numerous surveys of allegedly unaffected people show a lot of them have antibodies.8 billion people, only 4 million dead. Pretty good odds.
Yes
Most people do.
Same here. I live with teenagers who've had it too! Did everything I could to keep my immune system strong (rarely wore mask, traveled, dined indoors, etc.) Maybe some prior exposure?
Suggest Sturgis Motorcycle clubs and events. They are having a spike in cases, one hears. Please also report to us if you find any covid there. Do doorknobs taste good?
The hilariousness of the press attributing the rising South Dakota wave to Sturgis - so South Dakota wasn't *going* to have another wave at the same time as last year, just like most places except the northeast? We're the same superstitious species that we've always been.
If anything V-Twin motorcycles seem to afford protection from COVID. We should mandate them and try to get an V-Twin EUA for kids aged 5-11 from the FDA ASAP.
Or Florida. Everyone there seems to be dying from Covid again.
Check the numbers the death/case ration is quite low. Last few days (Aug 28) the hospitals are seeing a decline.
I was being sarcastic.
Some people have innate immunity, some people acquire immunity through illness.
Everyone does. We're born with it. Most of us screw it up over the years.
Try toilet seats. If that doesn't help you're probably a mutant.
Perhaps you have been immune, the anti bodies are gone, and your immune system remembers it well. Congratulations.
I think I'm up a creek without a paddle. Had not been vaxxed and am just recovered from having covid. Now I'm really afraid to get any of the vaccines as there are dire tales of bad reactions for those having natural immunity who get jabbed. Can't get on a cruise ship without a vaccine "passport," can't go out to eat in New York City, can't enroll in a course at many colleges. When will someone with some COMMON SENSE realize that your can't one-size-fits-all for 300 million+ persons!
These fascists are bound to lose, don’t lose faith
Agree with you totally but do you really WANT to do any/all those things or are you just pissed (as I am) that those things are not available to me (even though I don't really want to go do them...) I'm not saying the segregation is right or ok, it is not.
Cruise ships are great places to catch all kinds of nasty diseases. NYC is a shithole thanks to DeBlah-blah-blah, you'd probably get mugged. And give your $ to a college that isn't a bunch of science denying idiots. Just my 2 cents. (I am unvaxed and an "I believe in my Immune System Conspiracist"!)
Well if you are coerced, I sure as heck would wait at LEAST 90 days.
Good news. Googled natural immunity and now first 4 entries reflect that it is more protective than vaccination including Science, Bloomberg, and Fortune. The talking MD heads haven’t got the message yet but they will.
If Google hasn't filtered it to the bottom pages, that is good news indeed.
Give it time, Google will F that up.
LOL
WHY does every study contain this line, "The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and then received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated." No study will conclude natural immunity is sufficient, it's as if they are scared to say so. Maybe I am content with my natural immunity and don't want to take *any* risk of taking a vaccine (because the side effects do seem to be greater when the previously infected are given the vaccine.)
Such disclaimers also don't account for the yet unknown duration of that superfluous "protection." There is no reason to imagine that juicing up antibodies with vaccines "protects" the previously infected for more than a few months, just as it only prevents infection for a few months in all other recipients.
I have read that if one is naturally immune, the jab disregulates the immune system. That's just a sales pitch that the jab makes it better. Most publications are on the take from pharma/Gates and the like, so the researchers have to equivocate to get the paper out. Also, when the study was done is critical. Newer ones show different results.
They don't want any trouble with Big Pharma.
Alex - your work is greatly appreciated (read: I signed up for a paid sub!). Solid, fact-based journalism, unfortunately, has become rare.
At some point, I'd love to have your insights on the various C-19 treatment options that are not being reported on in the MSM.
If one does find oneself with C-19 symptoms, immediately begin taking some for of C-19 treatment cocktail.
The goal is to avoid letting C-19 get severe. If C-19 gets severe AND you've got a comorbidity (or multiples), you're in for a potentially nasty experience. With early treatment, you most likely can avoid this.
If our Gov, Docs, etc...were sincerely trying to help us, they'd be all over treatments. Not so much on vaccinations.
Follow the money and bribes and threats...
I am the new, proud owner of natural immunity! I spent one day in the hospital last week, and today I took my dog on a 2.4 mile walk. Even though I haven't regained taste and smell, I'm feeling better every day. Where is my t-shirt? I want my t-shirt!
Make one online and wear it proudly!
hahaha could probably make a bundle on that T shirt!
US is probably the only country in the world that doesn't recognize natural immunity. The evidence is piling up enough that even the corrupt pharma shills won't be able to suppress it for long. I especially like the January report "Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19" from. NIAID web site. Apparently fauxi doesn't read his own reports.
The Blaze has an article this week "15 Studies Natural Immunity from Infection More Robust than COVID Vaccines" that summarizes and links a lot of evidence.
I feel safe from viruses, not from government.
They attempt to get around this by the recommendation that you get vaccinated for added protection or some kind of "super immunity" which even if true requires that you ignore any risks of getting vaccinated, ignore the increasingly obvious limitations of the immunity provided by the vaccine and ignore any risks of compromising your natural immunity
by getting vaccinated.
The question is whether submissive Americans are too stupid to realize they're being manipulated, or too timid to do anything about it. At this point, passive resistance seems the best approach, but some folks are getting more aggressive. It might get ugly before long, when the stupid become aware, and the timid find their strength. Maybe the coming election campaigns will resolve it peacefully. Maybe not. California is the next big test.
I've read that people who contracted SARS 17 years ago remain immune to both SARS and COVID. Since those two viruses are similar enough that scientists gave them the same name, it seems reasonable to believe that they'd generate similarly durable immunity.
Very reasonable
Two shots may actually hurt immunity in COVID recovered patients:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.22.436441v1
"the second BNT162b2 vaccine dose results in a reduction of cellular immunity in COVID-19 recovered individuals, which suggests that a second dose, according to the current standard regimen of vaccination, may be not necessary in individuals previously infected with SARS-CoV-2."
Weird - starts off saying it reduces cellular immunity and then says it MSY not be necessary! Shouldn’t it say it IS NOT RECOMMENDED?!
They would be out of "the club" Galileo style if they uttered such heresy.
Yup there go the nice cars research grants and fancy clubs 🤣
Exactly!!!
And what about a 3rd shot?
Thanks for the great reporting. Wish there was more we could do. I will be losing my teaching job in Connecticut on 9/27. This will be my 15th year teaching and I have never had a mark on my file and have had all good reviews.
The sad part is, the community I teach in is very liberal so they make you feel like a villain/outcast for not getting the vax.
It’s a hard job to give up. Wish the union would do something but they keep saying it’s a law and there’s nothing they can do.
GAB has started a job board for companies that do not require the jab.
Some have suggested having a lawyer draw up an agreement between you and your employer: make them liable for anything that goes wrong as a result of the jab. They will support your family if you can't, etc
Another idea is to become a private teacher for a group of kids.
About time you vote with your feet. Teachers are universally needed, pick a spot. With some systems, they will pay to relocate. I hear Idaho is quite nice.
Try this https://www.rutherford.org/files_images/general/2021_Vaccine_Exemption_Fact_Sheet.pdf
I'm so sorry that you were in that situation. I sure would make them put everything in writing so that you perhaps could sue for damages later. They are totally violating all principles of science and decency.
One of the most important derivative questions is...who's already had C19? Officially there are 215 million cases in the world, but this is too low. Many don't get tested (symptomatic or asymptotic). Also these tests don't test for t-cells, yet t-cells are more important and last longer.
In India, it's estimated that two-thirds of the population has C19 antibodies (https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/22/india/india-covid-antibodies-study-intl-hnk/index.html) and waaay back in Dec 2020, a Columbia study (https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-covid-infection-rate-study-20210826-7zcdvuvehrhjjpk7xy4uwes5di-story.html) said one-third of American's had C19. I suspect if we were to accurately do t-cell tests now, 90% of the populace already had C19.
This means many of these C19 rules are MADNESS! They are telling paper to wear mask, shut down businesses, get vaccinated, etc...when in all likelyhood they ALREADY had C19! That's shutting the barn door after the horse escaped. If the public were aware of the true infection rate and how widespread it was...that would do more to end our medical dictatorship than anything else. All these Covid-fascists are acting because they think they/we haven't gotten the disease yet when they likely already did.
If one wants to test for the antibodies, what’s the name of the test(s) to request? Thanks
I have been getting my antibodies test through Labcorp:
https://www.labcorp.com/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/individuals/antibody-test
Positive for Covid 19 in 11/2020 with robust antibodies to date. I had the antibodies test after 6mos (150x baseline immunity) and 9mos (230x baseline immunity). Will schedule for another test at 12mos. Performing my own study of 1. ;)
Great! well done : )
I had Covid in Nov 2020 too and recommended Labcorp up a few posts! I am going to do the same at my year anniversary.
I went to a clinic three weeks after my initial positive test to get tested for antibodies. Had to pay for it- $30- but it was worth it. Independent clinics are testing, at least in Montana.
They are working on self-administered/internet tests, but there are none available now (that I know of...could be wrong). Otherwise you go to a doctor and they can do a blood draw. But note, those tests under-report C19 antibodies because they don't test t-cells (too tricky/expensive).
This is the one I got.
https://www.t-detect.com
Ahhh yes-- that is correct most likely they had it early 2020.
Given that your body isn't going to produce antibodies absent an active encounter with the virus, even if you're not producing antibodies, there's nothing saying you haven't been infected and are now at least partially or fully immune. We're not constantly producing antibodies for measles or chicken pox although most of us have had or been vaccinated against both. That's my problem with the whole "testing for antibodies" schtick. I was tested. I didn't have any. But my husband was around someone who had COVID for an extended period of time, and this person ended up having a pretty bad case of it, and we're both fine. There are only two explanations for this: (1) We have bulletproof immune systems (which is doubtful) or (2) we had it at some point and carry immunity even if we're not actively producing antibodies. The second is more likely. Yet they still want to shove a vaccine on us. I know we're not alone in that position.
Yes. Antibody Fever is a racket; it only serves to market vaccine boosters in the end. Now that the link between previous infection and rarity of later infection has been established, we should throw all these antibody tests in the trash and move on with life.
I'm in this camp. Declare victory and move on. Don't let them gaslight you into playing "jab roulette" with your heart.
The jab causes heart attacks. Check out Alex's twitter today (Saturday 8/28). The evidence keeps growing.
You can get a t-cell test. My friends just had one done through LabCorps, I believe
Thank you. I did not know that. I'll go looking for it because I am really curious.
I just noticed the publication date on the Atlantic magazine’s Berenson is the « wrongest man » article. It is April 1, April Fool’s Day. Any significance there?
Other than the fact that a once-august publication has been completely hijacked by utter fools?
Great data here (albeit still a preprint):
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.19.21262111v1.full
Upshot is that vaccinated individuals have much higher antibody titres at first than naturally infected individuals, but the titres decrease much more rapidly such that after three months (and thereafter) naturally acquired immunity is progressively more protective than vaccine-induced immunity.
The puzzle is that both the vaccines and the virus seem to induce the creation of memory B cells (see, e.g., https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33858945/, primer on B cells here: https://www.verywellhealth.com/b-cells-2252132), and so should provide similar durable immunity — but they don’t.
My working theory has been that it is much easier for virus to evolve to beat the single-protein-targeting antibodies and B cells created by the vaccines (and that the mass vaccination program itself is causing the selective pressure for the virus to so evolve) than it is to evolve to beat the multi-protein-targeting antibodies and B cells created by natural immunity, which is why the vaccines are failing against the Delta and Lambda variants which exhibit mutations to the S protein targeted by the vaccines.
These guys throw some cold water on that idea however, noting that “The BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccine has been shown to stimulate production of antibodies to several SARS-CoV-2 proteins, not just the spike protein, suggesting that the vaccine provides short-term protection against variant strains(Amanat et al., 2021; Turner et al., 2021b). Combining these results with ours suggests that the recent surge in breakthrough infections in fully vaccinated individuals is due at least in part to declining levels of antibodies and not solely due to the variant strains of SARS-CoV-2.” This is different from what I have read from
other studies, but assuming arguendo it is true, then there is still the puzzle of why titres decrease so much more quickly in vaccinated individuals than naturally infected individuals given that both routes appear to stimulate memory B cell production.
In any event however, regardless of the mechanism, none of this is inconsistent with the thesis that the way these vaccines work is to create a strong initial immune response to the spike protein (thus the high initial levels of antibodies), but generate antibodies that are either less robustly protective across mutations and/or that do not continue to be produced past a few months despite the creation of memory B cells, for some as yet unknown reason.
Given these facts, I conclude that:
(a) mass vaccination will fail quickly without routine boosters due to the rapid drop in antibody titres, and will also spur the development of vaccine resistant variants the same way mass prescription of antibiotics does, and
(b) creating a hyperactive immune response every few months to fight a disease that most people are at very little risk from is a terrible risk-reward tradeoff, as routinely creating the inflammation of a hyperactive immune response will inevitably create autoimmune issues like arthritis and thrombocytopenia, the latter of which is already a known if rare side effect of the first round of vaccines (see, e.g., https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8336989/). Worse, the risk of autoimmune issues will increase with each booster dose as the body suffers progressively more inflammation from the repeated strong immune responses.
"Worse, the risk of autoimmune issues will increase with each booster dose as the body suffers progressively more inflammation from the repeated strong immune responses." This is it in a nutshell. I can't help but wonder if our government is being stupid or malicious here, but there's a reason why I used Wile E. Coyote in the graphic for my article discussing how these booster shots were probably going to backfire. I'm just sad that people are likely going to get hurt over this. They should be promoting treatments instead. Pardon the self-promo, but I wrote about this here: https://wholistic.substack.com/p/fda-vaccine-approval-gamble
Excellent article. Thank you.
Look at tables 2a and 2b of that study at the 0-29 day mean values for vaxed and NI. 12153 vs. 1914 for NI. That's an enormous difference??? If the vaxed started with a titer similar to NI say around 2000, the detectable levels would only last 3 months for vaxed vs. 6 for NI. Also, the scatter diagram on figure 2a/2b which are logarithmic show similar dropping off for all the patients. If not for the log scale, it would jump off the page with the 10x differential.
Coco, from all that I've been reading including the study you reference, I think you are spot on. Someone else asked the question why is the dose of the vax so high to create titers that are 10-15x what are seen in recovered persons with natural immunity. I don't know the answer, but given the rapid decline in detectable antibodies for the vaxed, had you dosed to create a lower titer, starting off with something that was similar to NI's, wouldn't the efficacy of the vax have then dropped off at 1-2 months rather than 6? Something to think about. The question is did they know this during the initial trials that were truncated? I don't know, but it's something to consider.
So the jab makes "crab stick" type immunity, which can't hold a candle to natural immunity (which is like actual real crab meat).