America can't afford its medical system. It also can't stop spending. A reckoning is coming, and the fight over Obamacare subsidies that led Democrats to shut the government is only the latest proof.
Having subsidies and a huge government involvement were the point of Obama care. When the government gets involved prices go up because there is no market discipline. This was intended to push us more towards a single payer system and even farther away from a free market.
Now do the profits that the insurance companies are making, and dig into the Pharmacy Benefit Managers that they all seem to own. You might even touch on the amount that Americans are (were?) charged for drugs compared to the rest of the world. Good stuff.
Exactly what happened on college campuses starting in the mid 90's when they went insane with CapX improvements at the detriment of educating students.
Sure the campuses looked beautiful, but the kids are getting stupider than ever, and many don't even belong there, eventually leaving with a useless degree (if they even get one) and tens of thousands in debt.
But have no fear, during that time the college administrative state quadrupled and salaries doubled.
What you describe is the near unlimited availability of money through grants and student loans or through Obamacare/Medicare/Medicaid which creates a mis-allocation of capital through poor reasoning and, yes, avarice. There is no incentive to keep costs down because there is always more money. Whether it is the Educational industrial Complex or the Medical Industrial Complex, the result is the same. The "tooth-to-tail ratio" keeps shrinking, the animal gets fat. Those that are actually direct labor, that is those that actually touch or engage with patients or students keeps shrinking in proportion to the whole.
Our prices for our insurance went from about 900 a month pre Obamacare to now more than 5000 if we had the same plan. Even with the HSA bronze plan we pay close to 4000 a month. Everyone with a brain knew this would happen and pointed it out prior to the late night Obama care vote. And yet now they are complaining that their policies have caused prices to skyrocket??? give me a break
Thank you for posting. They have been doing a world of good since 1993. The primary website for Christian Care Ministry's Medi-Share is https://www.medishare.com/.
one of the many problems with obamacare is that everyone is forced to pay for far too much insurance.
i am pretty healthy and need very little, yet apparently i can get a "free" boob job if i decide i want to be a woman that day.
it took years for the little sisters of the poor to not be forced to provide contraception for their nuns.
i hope trump finds a way to scale this back by gaining the full support of the Rs in congress or including these insurance companies in his war on the cartels.
Don't count on the useless republicans to do anything. They actually hate Trump more than the democrats. For example I offer you: Thune and the Save Act as well as his appointments.
It's time to stop calling it Obamacare. Please use a more descriptive name: the Unaffordable Care Act. Just another lie that Obama told us. Remember "you can keep your own doctor if you want to"? We can add that to (1) the check is in the mail, and (2) there will be no changes after the merger. The Unaffordable Care Act is failing just like all socialist schemes fail: they eventually run out of Other Peoples Money.
I’m self employed and my catastrophic Anthem Blue Cross premium is $2662 a month for a family of three. It’s my single biggest expense. Before ACA it was around $400 a month. It is stifling.
Nah, a reckoning isn't coming. Eventually, the politicians in Washington will cave in, the money printing press will get cranked up again, and we'll have more of the same.
The fundamental problem with our political system is that cutting spending will never stick. It's kind of like being the divorced parent who makes their kids eat their vegetables and puts them to bed early, while the other parent lets them eat junk food nonstop and takes them to Disney on a credit card-fueled vacation. One's responsible, the other is irresponsible. But guess which parent the kids will choose?
In that way, both parties are incentivized to keep the money flowing. It's political suicide not to ... no matter how good a campaign promise of cutting spending may sound.
You can't buy a policy now that only covers catastrophic injury and/or illness. Every plan has to cover pediatric dental care, in-vitro and other fertility treatments, and more. There are at least two dozen mandated treatments that Obamacare added.
Many, especially young, healthy Americans would be better off if they paid out-of-pocket for routine, predictable expenses like annual checkups and had a policy with a very high, like $50,000 or more, deductible. Whatever your preferred level of risk, they should be allowed to offer it. The higher the deductible, the lower the premium.
But insurers cannot offer that because Obamacare mandates a lot of very expensive treatments which must be covered from dollar one, and that is why insurance prices went through the roof.
We don't have insurance anymore, because even subsidized by my husband's work it was too expensive and it hardly paid for anything. We're also pretty healthy so it's just for catastrophic care
We're with Crowd Health now and it's great. You pay $500 per event and they crowd source the rest. You get 1 free wellness visit a year too. About $500/ month for me and the 3 kids (my husband has his insurance premium completely paid by his employers, plus he's ineligible for CH because he was a daily smoker for years).
I called Medishare when I was paying for my own premiums but as I recall there was some religious requirements which were beyond simply being of the Christian faith. I stuck with non-insurance insurance (which is what I called it) because I bought a high deductible policy for $1100.00 per month which if I was lucky afforded me a couple preventative exams a year. It's not even easy to get the preventative exams anymore because insurers are figuring out how to not pay for those if you say the wrong thing, i.e., don't ask any questions about your health. That's for another post. Now I am on Medicare and I never thought I would be so happy to be 65!
I haven't bought health insurance since 2010. I am 61 yrs old. I am not afraid of 'getting sick.' Of course I will get sick at some point, but I refuse to pay the premiums and never get anything out of it. What little health care I need, I pay out of pocket. I self medicate. I think all these screenings are bullshit.....look we found something you would never know was there, that may have never caused a problem so now we are gonna light you body on fire to get rid of it....and of course require multiple doctor's visits and patented meds and all the 'keep you from dying,' which is going to happen ANYWAY sooner or later. I refuse to trade today and enjoying life for a couple of years---at best---when I am already decrepit.
I'm a veterinarian. I make just enough to never qualify for any subsidies....but not enough to fork out $40k/yr in case I get sick. I read articles critically and do things that look sensible. I exercise. I eat OK, but I'm not health nut. I will never give up Diet Coke or Creme Brulee. I know another older famous person that drinks DC by the gallon....seems to working for them....maybe it's the key to a long life? What's in that shit anyway?
Want to lower healthcare costs? Stop buying insurance. Just quit. Most people could and would never miss it. They are TOLD by their doctors what's wrong with them even when they feel fine....
Wouldn't you rather live a full, exciting life and just drop dead one day than to prolong it with endless medical trips, procedures and medication that likely makes you sicker than if you didn't take it?
I'll keep riding my horses, OUTDOORS in the sunshine and hopefully, when my time comes, I won't see it coming and will enjoy myself right up to the end.
I totally agree. I am an 80 yo Agent Orange crumbling Vietnam Vet hearing you loud and proud. I think we are part of a large—but silent—cohort of AMERICANS.
I’d be all over just having a catastrophic plan. No insurance at all would make me nervous - about accidents mainly - I can’t control the other drivers on the road. More power to you, but lay off the Diet Coke. It is nasty stuff. The real stuff in moderation is probably a better option.
Ummm....funny that people slam Diet Coke so much......Trump drinks it like water. Maybe, just MAYBE.....it affects different people differently....just like everything else.
Don't worry about accidents. They literally HAVE TO TREAT YOU....it's a law now. Ask ANY illegal if they worry about healthcare options when they don't have insurance. Game the system like it games you. It's time.
You are still living in fear of the system. You CAN fight the system, but you have to be persistent and not be afraid of them. They cannot just 'take your assets.' It would involve a long, drawn out court battle. They don't want to pay for the attorneys. They will do a calculation....how much will it cost us to collect say $50,000.....if it costs more than that to collect, they will let it slide. I'm just telling you how big corps operate. Say they have a sexual discrimination accusation that is total bullshit....but for $25K, they can pay off the accuser...even though they KNOW it's bullshit, they will pay. That's how the world works. Use it FOR you. Everyone needs to understand that it's all a shell game at this point. You don't REALLY owe what they say you do. You find their break even point and offer that to them, if they won't take it, they send it to collections. Collections typically gets no more than 25 cents on the dollar....and collections will often do a deal right away for less. At the time it gets to collections, the debt has basically been written off by the company. If you have a smaller bill....say $10K, it will likely just be written off anyway. They do this because they have SOOOOOOO many people paying these ridiculous premiums that never use them. The premiums are fear money......you think you are safe if you pay them....but they don't guarantee ANYTHING. How many people pay in all that money and then, when they need the treatment, get denied???? If everyone would just NOT ENROLL this fall...EVERYONE. They would have no choice but to change the system. But people have been conditioned to think you cannot survive without 'healthcare.' It's not even healthcare anymore.....it's 'here's a new drug, try it...oh, you had a side effect, well here's another drug for the side effect.' How many doctors are prescribing exercise and fresh air????? And I'll cling to my diet coke, bible and guns.....thank you very much.
We are right there with you and I desperately wish you were also our vet! A good horse ride in the sun cures most everything! No insurance for our family either any more!
Preach!! We are among the families being crushed by the cost of health insurance (self-employed; no subsidies). But genuine question: What on earth are the Republicans doing to solve this?! What happened to repeal and replace?! I am begging the Republicans to finally fix this! The Democrats are pushing our country toward government-funded healthcare. The Republicans must offer a better free-market solution. (Selling health insurance across state lines, for instance….) Are the Republicans *that* bought and paid for also that they won’t solve this?
My letter published in the NY Times 10/20 that no one read:
To the Editor:
My family of five exited the health insurance marketplace eight years ago. We would have been paying $24,000 a year for premiums, and with a $10,000 deductible, would have to pay $34,000 a year before getting actual coverage. And no, the annual mammogram, checkups and vaccines that would have been covered would not have made up the cost.
Our family ended up paying about $15,000 in medical care with cash — and that included one $4,000 emergency room visit.
Lawmakers, if you want to help the American people, let us pay for actual medical insurance with decent prices. I won’t enter the market knowing my massive premiums are paying for someone else’s endless, needless use, or fraud.
A side note - stay away from mammograms, colonoscopies, flu shots, shingles vaccines, pneumonia vaccines. Chances are you’ll live a longer, healthier life.
I guarantee that the patients that soak in the ambience of that lovely lobby are the people that are demanding that I open up my wallet to pay for the healthcare of people using Obamacare.
Not for profit is the biggest scam in healthcare. We have a hospital in my town. It’s part of several but they have purchased every house that surrounds it (you know in case they expand) but the median house cost in my town is 1.2mil. They currently rent these houses out and get a pretty penny for rent. They also own a 6 story apt. Building that staff can rent from them as they automatically take your rent from your check which is a nice touch. Pretty kind of them really. Their non-profit status rips off the town as they don’t pay municipal taxes but are the biggest user of them. They just built a new parking garage for patients that see Drs. In the other wing that is for them and that belong to the profit making arm. It’s horseshit. They added a new floor in the past year and a helicopter landing pad. Don’t get me started about the grift they have being self insured with the healthcare they offer their employees as my wife has been there now for close to 30 years. Non profit in healthcare needs to end. They make the rules and even break them. It’s disgusting and they laugh all the way to the bank.
As I've written here before, when Obamacare first came into existence my husband and I spent 20k a year on premiums and all we got for that 20k was free flu shots. Our deductibles of $7500 each meant we paid all our own health costs out of pocket. And that was only the 1st year. We had to change policies and companies each year because none of our selections were offered for more than a year. By the time we became eligible for Medicare the premiums and deductibles had gone up every year. Obamacare blew up and destroyed a health system that wasn't great but was better than where we are now. Just like student loans government intervention always increases costs. Period. Why is this is this so damn hard to recognize?
Having subsidies and a huge government involvement were the point of Obama care. When the government gets involved prices go up because there is no market discipline. This was intended to push us more towards a single payer system and even farther away from a free market.
Now do the profits that the insurance companies are making, and dig into the Pharmacy Benefit Managers that they all seem to own. You might even touch on the amount that Americans are (were?) charged for drugs compared to the rest of the world. Good stuff.
You know what this smells like?
Exactly what happened on college campuses starting in the mid 90's when they went insane with CapX improvements at the detriment of educating students.
Sure the campuses looked beautiful, but the kids are getting stupider than ever, and many don't even belong there, eventually leaving with a useless degree (if they even get one) and tens of thousands in debt.
But have no fear, during that time the college administrative state quadrupled and salaries doubled.
What you describe is the near unlimited availability of money through grants and student loans or through Obamacare/Medicare/Medicaid which creates a mis-allocation of capital through poor reasoning and, yes, avarice. There is no incentive to keep costs down because there is always more money. Whether it is the Educational industrial Complex or the Medical Industrial Complex, the result is the same. The "tooth-to-tail ratio" keeps shrinking, the animal gets fat. Those that are actually direct labor, that is those that actually touch or engage with patients or students keeps shrinking in proportion to the whole.
Spot on
Hundreds of thousands in debt.
Our prices for our insurance went from about 900 a month pre Obamacare to now more than 5000 if we had the same plan. Even with the HSA bronze plan we pay close to 4000 a month. Everyone with a brain knew this would happen and pointed it out prior to the late night Obama care vote. And yet now they are complaining that their policies have caused prices to skyrocket??? give me a break
You should look into MediShare - or a similar healthcare cost sharing program. My premiums went down by ~90%!!!
Thank you for posting. They have been doing a world of good since 1993. The primary website for Christian Care Ministry's Medi-Share is https://www.medishare.com/.
If in Utah, Zion health share is great. I had to leave when I became Medicare eligible. My Medicare premium is 3x what I was paying with Zion.
one of the many problems with obamacare is that everyone is forced to pay for far too much insurance.
i am pretty healthy and need very little, yet apparently i can get a "free" boob job if i decide i want to be a woman that day.
it took years for the little sisters of the poor to not be forced to provide contraception for their nuns.
i hope trump finds a way to scale this back by gaining the full support of the Rs in congress or including these insurance companies in his war on the cartels.
Don't count on the useless republicans to do anything. They actually hate Trump more than the democrats. For example I offer you: Thune and the Save Act as well as his appointments.
The republicans only enrich themselves.
It's time to stop calling it Obamacare. Please use a more descriptive name: the Unaffordable Care Act. Just another lie that Obama told us. Remember "you can keep your own doctor if you want to"? We can add that to (1) the check is in the mail, and (2) there will be no changes after the merger. The Unaffordable Care Act is failing just like all socialist schemes fail: they eventually run out of Other Peoples Money.
Don't forget, "We weren't as shovel-ready as we thought we were."
Oh, that shovel metaphor goes much deeper than people could ever appreciate.
And don't forget the classic "I just want to touch it".
We will solve the price problem by dousing it with a gusher of unending government money.
This is not unlike the housing bubble.
How about the Fraudulent Careless Act?
Or the true agenda of the left, Depopulate America Plan…
And I’m here from the Government to help.
I agree and that's what I have called it for years because that's what it is.
I’m self employed and my catastrophic Anthem Blue Cross premium is $2662 a month for a family of three. It’s my single biggest expense. Before ACA it was around $400 a month. It is stifling.
Nah, a reckoning isn't coming. Eventually, the politicians in Washington will cave in, the money printing press will get cranked up again, and we'll have more of the same.
The fundamental problem with our political system is that cutting spending will never stick. It's kind of like being the divorced parent who makes their kids eat their vegetables and puts them to bed early, while the other parent lets them eat junk food nonstop and takes them to Disney on a credit card-fueled vacation. One's responsible, the other is irresponsible. But guess which parent the kids will choose?
In that way, both parties are incentivized to keep the money flowing. It's political suicide not to ... no matter how good a campaign promise of cutting spending may sound.
It's the mandates.
You can't buy a policy now that only covers catastrophic injury and/or illness. Every plan has to cover pediatric dental care, in-vitro and other fertility treatments, and more. There are at least two dozen mandated treatments that Obamacare added.
Many, especially young, healthy Americans would be better off if they paid out-of-pocket for routine, predictable expenses like annual checkups and had a policy with a very high, like $50,000 or more, deductible. Whatever your preferred level of risk, they should be allowed to offer it. The higher the deductible, the lower the premium.
But insurers cannot offer that because Obamacare mandates a lot of very expensive treatments which must be covered from dollar one, and that is why insurance prices went through the roof.
We don't have insurance anymore, because even subsidized by my husband's work it was too expensive and it hardly paid for anything. We're also pretty healthy so it's just for catastrophic care
We're with Crowd Health now and it's great. You pay $500 per event and they crowd source the rest. You get 1 free wellness visit a year too. About $500/ month for me and the 3 kids (my husband has his insurance premium completely paid by his employers, plus he's ineligible for CH because he was a daily smoker for years).
We have 3 children and we have Medishare.
Everyone who can should opt out of traditional insurance.
I called Medishare when I was paying for my own premiums but as I recall there was some religious requirements which were beyond simply being of the Christian faith. I stuck with non-insurance insurance (which is what I called it) because I bought a high deductible policy for $1100.00 per month which if I was lucky afforded me a couple preventative exams a year. It's not even easy to get the preventative exams anymore because insurers are figuring out how to not pay for those if you say the wrong thing, i.e., don't ask any questions about your health. That's for another post. Now I am on Medicare and I never thought I would be so happy to be 65!
You do have to declare you are a Christian, etc. and the plan does not cover contraception, abortion, motorcycle accidents, a few other things.
Glad you are finally on Medicare!
Another money grab from pharma - the need for annual checkups. Obviously if you’re having issues check it out, but otherwise stay away.
And isn't it illegal for hospitals to allow fee-for-service, or lose their gov't money?
I haven't bought health insurance since 2010. I am 61 yrs old. I am not afraid of 'getting sick.' Of course I will get sick at some point, but I refuse to pay the premiums and never get anything out of it. What little health care I need, I pay out of pocket. I self medicate. I think all these screenings are bullshit.....look we found something you would never know was there, that may have never caused a problem so now we are gonna light you body on fire to get rid of it....and of course require multiple doctor's visits and patented meds and all the 'keep you from dying,' which is going to happen ANYWAY sooner or later. I refuse to trade today and enjoying life for a couple of years---at best---when I am already decrepit.
I'm a veterinarian. I make just enough to never qualify for any subsidies....but not enough to fork out $40k/yr in case I get sick. I read articles critically and do things that look sensible. I exercise. I eat OK, but I'm not health nut. I will never give up Diet Coke or Creme Brulee. I know another older famous person that drinks DC by the gallon....seems to working for them....maybe it's the key to a long life? What's in that shit anyway?
Want to lower healthcare costs? Stop buying insurance. Just quit. Most people could and would never miss it. They are TOLD by their doctors what's wrong with them even when they feel fine....
Wouldn't you rather live a full, exciting life and just drop dead one day than to prolong it with endless medical trips, procedures and medication that likely makes you sicker than if you didn't take it?
I'll keep riding my horses, OUTDOORS in the sunshine and hopefully, when my time comes, I won't see it coming and will enjoy myself right up to the end.
Someone needs to start the opt out of insurance movement.
I totally agree. I am an 80 yo Agent Orange crumbling Vietnam Vet hearing you loud and proud. I think we are part of a large—but silent—cohort of AMERICANS.
I’d be all over just having a catastrophic plan. No insurance at all would make me nervous - about accidents mainly - I can’t control the other drivers on the road. More power to you, but lay off the Diet Coke. It is nasty stuff. The real stuff in moderation is probably a better option.
Ummm....funny that people slam Diet Coke so much......Trump drinks it like water. Maybe, just MAYBE.....it affects different people differently....just like everything else.
Don't worry about accidents. They literally HAVE TO TREAT YOU....it's a law now. Ask ANY illegal if they worry about healthcare options when they don't have insurance. Game the system like it games you. It's time.
I’m sure they would treat me in the moment, but if I have assets, they would come after me for payment. Fees can be negotiated, but a serious accident or illness could bankrupt someone. Regarding the diet drinks, better living through chemicals? ;^) I’m all about the crème brûlée, though!
You are still living in fear of the system. You CAN fight the system, but you have to be persistent and not be afraid of them. They cannot just 'take your assets.' It would involve a long, drawn out court battle. They don't want to pay for the attorneys. They will do a calculation....how much will it cost us to collect say $50,000.....if it costs more than that to collect, they will let it slide. I'm just telling you how big corps operate. Say they have a sexual discrimination accusation that is total bullshit....but for $25K, they can pay off the accuser...even though they KNOW it's bullshit, they will pay. That's how the world works. Use it FOR you. Everyone needs to understand that it's all a shell game at this point. You don't REALLY owe what they say you do. You find their break even point and offer that to them, if they won't take it, they send it to collections. Collections typically gets no more than 25 cents on the dollar....and collections will often do a deal right away for less. At the time it gets to collections, the debt has basically been written off by the company. If you have a smaller bill....say $10K, it will likely just be written off anyway. They do this because they have SOOOOOOO many people paying these ridiculous premiums that never use them. The premiums are fear money......you think you are safe if you pay them....but they don't guarantee ANYTHING. How many people pay in all that money and then, when they need the treatment, get denied???? If everyone would just NOT ENROLL this fall...EVERYONE. They would have no choice but to change the system. But people have been conditioned to think you cannot survive without 'healthcare.' It's not even healthcare anymore.....it's 'here's a new drug, try it...oh, you had a side effect, well here's another drug for the side effect.' How many doctors are prescribing exercise and fresh air????? And I'll cling to my diet coke, bible and guns.....thank you very much.
We are right there with you and I desperately wish you were also our vet! A good horse ride in the sun cures most everything! No insurance for our family either any more!
Preach!! We are among the families being crushed by the cost of health insurance (self-employed; no subsidies). But genuine question: What on earth are the Republicans doing to solve this?! What happened to repeal and replace?! I am begging the Republicans to finally fix this! The Democrats are pushing our country toward government-funded healthcare. The Republicans must offer a better free-market solution. (Selling health insurance across state lines, for instance….) Are the Republicans *that* bought and paid for also that they won’t solve this?
Seriously, check out Crowd Health. It's saving my family alot of money.
Thanks for the tip!
We use Medishare - Christian Care Ministries.
Ding! Ding! Ding! You nailed it. The republicans are bought and paid for.
My letter published in the NY Times 10/20 that no one read:
To the Editor:
My family of five exited the health insurance marketplace eight years ago. We would have been paying $24,000 a year for premiums, and with a $10,000 deductible, would have to pay $34,000 a year before getting actual coverage. And no, the annual mammogram, checkups and vaccines that would have been covered would not have made up the cost.
Our family ended up paying about $15,000 in medical care with cash — and that included one $4,000 emergency room visit.
Lawmakers, if you want to help the American people, let us pay for actual medical insurance with decent prices. I won’t enter the market knowing my massive premiums are paying for someone else’s endless, needless use, or fraud.
Molly Putnam
Charlotte, N.C.
A side note - stay away from mammograms, colonoscopies, flu shots, shingles vaccines, pneumonia vaccines. Chances are you’ll live a longer, healthier life.
Is it just me or does this look like a plastic surgery center?
That’s the big money goal - Bezo’s wife being the model.
I guarantee that the patients that soak in the ambience of that lovely lobby are the people that are demanding that I open up my wallet to pay for the healthcare of people using Obamacare.
Everyone who pays full price needs to opt out and watch the system burn.
Not for profit is the biggest scam in healthcare. We have a hospital in my town. It’s part of several but they have purchased every house that surrounds it (you know in case they expand) but the median house cost in my town is 1.2mil. They currently rent these houses out and get a pretty penny for rent. They also own a 6 story apt. Building that staff can rent from them as they automatically take your rent from your check which is a nice touch. Pretty kind of them really. Their non-profit status rips off the town as they don’t pay municipal taxes but are the biggest user of them. They just built a new parking garage for patients that see Drs. In the other wing that is for them and that belong to the profit making arm. It’s horseshit. They added a new floor in the past year and a helicopter landing pad. Don’t get me started about the grift they have being self insured with the healthcare they offer their employees as my wife has been there now for close to 30 years. Non profit in healthcare needs to end. They make the rules and even break them. It’s disgusting and they laugh all the way to the bank.
As I've written here before, when Obamacare first came into existence my husband and I spent 20k a year on premiums and all we got for that 20k was free flu shots. Our deductibles of $7500 each meant we paid all our own health costs out of pocket. And that was only the 1st year. We had to change policies and companies each year because none of our selections were offered for more than a year. By the time we became eligible for Medicare the premiums and deductibles had gone up every year. Obamacare blew up and destroyed a health system that wasn't great but was better than where we are now. Just like student loans government intervention always increases costs. Period. Why is this is this so damn hard to recognize?