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Allison Brennan's avatar

The line from the excerpt that caught my eye is one that I think has been proven true -- that people would balk at paying a thousand dollars for a miracle drug.

Health insurance has turned into "why should I have to pay anything for my health."

Health insurance should never have covered "everything" (unless you want to spend the money on a policy that covers everything.) Health insurance should be for major expenses -- what I call my "hit by a bus" policy. Just like auto insurance is for collisions, not maintenance.

Practically, my "hit by a bus" policy was cancelled because of Obamacare. I went from paying less than $800/month for my family of seven to over $3,000 a month in 3 years. I cancelled it. I went without insurance for years because there was no way I could pay $3,000 a month and my mortgage and my bills and raise my family. Yes, I was scared that something "bad" would happen and I would be stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills, but I wasn't paying over $36K a year (with a $10K deductible!) for insurance. It would have been nearly $40K before the insurance paid anything (unless I wanted birth control or vaccines or a $50 co-pay well-visit.)

I have my "hit by a bus" policy back because of Trump's first term, and I'm good with that.

It's True's avatar

Alex needs to go back before the 1940s and look at how we used to think about medical costs: you paid for your regular costs and had major medical for “hit by a bus” but the tax code encouraged the “bumper to bumper” plan regardless of cost.

Mark Wallace's avatar

If health insurance was illegal and everyone had to pay cash out of their own pocket for health care, health care cost would plunge like a safe falling out of a 17-story building because the Medical-Pharma/Industrial Complex would have almost no customers or patients at the ridiculous prices they are now charging. It’s health insurance that enables the ridiculous prices.

PDG's avatar

People would be forced to go broke or take better care of themselves. The free market has a solution for the obesity epidemic.

It's True's avatar

Exactly, since it is "someone else's" money there is no incentive to care about cost and so no market pressure to keep them reasonable. Which was what Obama and the far-left democrats wanted to get to "single payer" with even less incentive to manage costs.

Forever Jaded's avatar

Mark, Your point is well made, but also we have been programmed to think, I want and deserve the best of the best, however, paying for it, Never! I am a retired nurse and work part time in utilization review, when I have to present a patient with a MOON form which is required by Medicare policies, many can not believe they probably will pay more for the care they are receiving. I have to kindly remind them that is their any cost that you would not pay to have your health. A perplexed look is usually their first response.

Tom Ward's avatar

But we will never, ever go back to that better world because there are millions of jobs in the insurance inefficiency. Sorta like government.

Allison Brennan's avatar

Not just insurance, but health care as a whole.

RColeman's avatar

Yep, still paying $3800 a month for my family. More than my mortgage. I need my kids to hurry up and grow up!

Allison Brennan's avatar

I moved to a Christian health-share program for my husband for $300 a month and get reimbursed for most expenses. Basically, in 2024 my husband had two major medical issues. As self-pay, the bills which would have amounted to more than $170K if we had insurance (and the insurance would have paid) were reduced to $56K based on discounts, etc and I was reimbursed for $52K. So I spent just over $8,000 out of pocket on health as opposed to if we had the old plan I would have had to spend nearly $40K. I have me and my one kid still at home on the hit-by-a-bus policy for under $700/month.

Dr. Jay Walker's avatar

My wife and I switched to Christian Healthcare Ministries when Obamacare rolled out. Being self-employed, the premiums, even for the HSA-type plans, were astronomical. So glad we switched. Since then my wife had 2 eye surgeries, two kidney surgeries, gall bladder removal, and back surgery. Not to mention living with Chronic Myologenous Leukemia ($15,000 per month medication). I've had a meniscus surgery and an Achilles repair. CHM saved me 10s of $1,000s.

Allison Brennan's avatar

When we went to CHM, I learned SO much about how doctors, hospitals, etc charge for services. It's not a set fee for anything. My husband had a surgery (out-patient!) that would have cost $17,700 if insurance was billed. They charged us $8,800. I had to pay 50% up front then had a payment plan for the remainder. Before my first payment, CHM had reimbursed me after I submitted the itemized bill (we'd already met our deductible for the year.) THEN we got a couple hundred dollars back from the hospital. Go figure. A CHM employee spent more than an hour on the phone with us to help us learn how to negotiate for my husband's heart surgery to get the lowest possible cost. The OUT PATIENT center (literally a one-day procedure) wanted to charge $26,000 for something that should cost $5-6K -- for cash pay. If they charged insurance? It would have been $49K. (I have all the documents to back this up because people don't believe me.)

Elizabeth Sexworth's avatar

I have the same. It is a little convoluted to navigate in terms of logistics, but the one time I’ve had to use it I was reimbursed for all costs, minus the deductible.

Allison Brennan's avatar

It took me a long time to figure out the system.

Brogan12's avatar

And the Health Insurance Companies making BANK as usual...round and round we go. Same as it ever was and zero ACCOUNTABILITY anywhere to be seen!

Forever Jaded's avatar

Yep, UHC profited in the Billions last year, can’t make it up.

RColeman's avatar

UHC did hundreds of billions in business, but only made a few billion profit. There stock got cut in half, so I don't even think it's that they make so much money, it's just all lost to bureaucracy.

Forever Jaded's avatar

I had a Dr. at work indicate they profited several billion last year? He’s pretty reliable IMO. He also indicated that they normally go to great lengths to make it next to impossible to find this and without his sources he probably would not have gotten the info? Wonder why?I think your point is True, but I also think the insurance companies, medical equipment companies, and hospitals have all gotten greedy and this has led to some of our health care cost explosions. I also think we as consumers want the best, immediate treatment no matter what the cost, as long as we don’t have to pay for any of it. All roads lead to…

P

Danno's avatar

It's extortion, plain and simple.

Danno's avatar

I quit ALL health insurance as soon as the Court responsible for my child support settlement allowed me to. Now my providers sometimes allow me to negotiate lower prices, and they don't dare prescribe shit like blood pressure meds.

Allison Brennan's avatar

We were cash pay for a long time and most meds (common, generic) are cheap. I learned quickly that if you have insurance, your "co-pay" is often the same or higher than the cash pay for the same medication. A total scam but I don't see how we get out of this mess.

Sandra Slivka's avatar

Yes they'd balk. But wouldn't balk at 10K per ticket to go to jurassic Park. I think that's the point.

Louise C's avatar

Obamacare was designed to fail. It would have failed right away if there were no subsidies. The ACA was just a stepping stone on the way to single payer healthcare, which Bernie and AOC described as Medicare for all. The Canadian healthcare system is a failure as is the NHS in the UK but the socialists point to them as shining examples of government run healthcare.

Allison Brennan's avatar

I want to star and highlight this comment. 100% accurate!

Louise C's avatar

TY. I don't think many people realize what the ACA was all about.

Lois Lassiter's avatar

Health insurance is now officially a scam.

DividedUpWorld's avatar

You think so…?

What’s absolutely incredible incredulous, insidious and insane is that the average person, regardless of race, color creed financial status and even position in the community, is that 80% of us are beyond hope.

The 80/ 20 rule, folks..,

I said this long before anybody in modern day Washington politics has uttered it, my analogy is simply this:

You walk up to two doors, the first has an 80% likelihood of getting you where you want to be, the second only a 20% likelihood. Which door do you choose?…

It’s incredible what a significant percentage of people will choose the 20%, because they want a challenge, they defy the odds, they just don’t believe that there is such a dramatic difference between the two choices. And that’s why humanity fails, they just can’t pay attention to the grim reality of responsible appropriate accountable choice.

I can’t wait tomorrow morning to see what the fuck Donald Trump is going to do with Iran, is he going to saturation bomb it, is he just gonna have hollow words and nothing of significance happens, or some other alternative which I can’t even comprehend today?!

These people as rulers are truly the representation of humanity in this country, we either have a significant portion that are sociopaths, or cowards. You pick whether there’s an 80/ 20 rule to that.

RColeman's avatar

Drug companies, medical device companies, healthcare providers, (even the insurance companies)...they all make money keeping us sick. The bureaucracy within these groups feed a hell of a lot of people, and quite nicely.

My daughter works for a cardio clinic. They keep a schedule book at the front desk so different drug or device reps can sign up for DAILY lunch catering for the entire office of 50 people. The rep then has 5 minutes with one of the docs during lunch to pitch some new $1200/dose drug.

Imagine if we went back to a system where people could ask how much something costs and get an actual answer. No, the bureaucracy in the insurance side of the equation won't let that happen either. Insurance is just a discount program now, and they force providers to jack up prices 10x so they can give us that 90% discount so we have to have the product.

Remember, the food industry is busy destroying our nutrition and health by limiting options to anything remotely healthy or appropriately caloric.

I don't know all the answers, and government run systems is not the answer, but nobody involved in the schemes is going to lead us out of this quagmire, that I am sure of.

TLF1776's avatar

A physician leader of a health system recently told me that it was difficult to tell a patient in advance how much healthcare will cost when they don't know what's wrong with you until they examine you, and therefore don't know how much it will cost to treat you. I got his point, yet the patient's side of the transaction is unreasonable and unsustainable.

Some Dude in Ohio's avatar

I think the best thing we can do is become our own doctors (in a manner of speaking; not saying at all that I'm going to do my own surgery on myself). The overall goal is maximum health and minimum interaction with our nation's health care system (and whenever possible, making those interactions with independent doctors not affiliated with the larger medicine-industrial complex).

For me, that means:

- Exercising every day (usually multiple times per day). A walk in the morning, a walk or run in the evening, weights and strength training a couple of times per week, and flexibility exercises throughout the day. If I don't make the time to do it today, then I won't be around to make the time tomorrow.

- Generally eating well.

- Corollary to the previous rule: never eating a meal that (a) arrived through my car window or (b) was dropped off on my doorstep.

- Drinking plenty of water every day.

- No smoking, no drugs, virtually no alcohol.

- Taking medicines only if necessary (I take one pill per day, and that's because three rounds of blood clots taught me that my veins are carrying one part blood and one part Krazy Glue).

- Seeking out independent doctors (currently, our PCP is an independent solo practitioner, not associated with any of the large medical systems in our city; we will be moving later this year, and have already made contact with a concierge practice in our new town).

That's what works for me, and generally keeps me out of the doctor's office.

I'm not saying to turn your back completely on all of medicine. If I get cancer, I'm not going to "treat" it with magic beads or whatever. But I am determined to make myself as unappealing a customer as possible for most of our medical system ... as a way of my larger goal of making the Grim Reaper's job as difficult as possible. (He'll get me someday, but he's gonna have to fight for it.)

Jim Stewart's avatar

Wait just a second, that sounds like taking personal responsibility. We can't have that in the 21st century!

LIB's avatar

And how about giving those of us who have no medical issues, take our vitamins , eat well a break? Why must I subsidize someone who abuses her/his body for decades? I should get a reduced price for all my sacrifices. Alas, the system punishes all some more equally than others.

KFH's avatar

I've concluded there are so many now feeding off the medical cartel cow there is NO scientific intention to cure anything. Stopped giving to American Heart and American Cancer.

I also now look to substack sources - people the 'system' tried to destroy during covid - Paul Marek, Peter McCullough, etc. for medical information and guidance I hope I can trust.

I'm not suggesting all physicians are 'in on' whatever the scam is, but they are certainly caught in the web of the cartel and are either unintentionally or intentionally blind to all of it.

So many doctors where I live are now employees of the local hospital healthcare system and I can't recall how or when that happened! Precious few are independent. Covid really woke me up and turned me into an alert medical skeptic.....

Kate's avatar

Agree about not giving to American Heart or Cancer or any of those other “charities”. They have existed for many years with no cures. In fact, they would go out of business if a cure to heart disease or cancer was found.

Kent Miller's avatar

My father went to the emergency room last year at a hospital in Oklahoma. The vending machine had only one remotely healthy item: beef jerky. Everything else was processed carbs, like sweets and chips.

It struck me then: the health care system doesn’t want patients; it wants customers.

LIB's avatar

The hospitals create the vicious cycle. EAt better, here is junk food, why don't you eat better. And what really gets me is when I know more about nutrition than my doctor who then nods & dismisses what I say. I have a new doctor now who listens & says he wants to learn.

Forever Jaded's avatar

LIB, aren’t you sorta afraid of a doctor that you have to teach? I applaud the willingness to learn, however?The up side is you should know yourself inside out and collaborating with the doctor could only be a win - win for you?

LIB's avatar

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I was educating him about herbs and preparedness remedies so WSHTF, he knows what to do. He is a concierge doctor which allows me more time to talk & 24/7 access to him. For example, one can use pepper to help heal a wound or honey on skin ailments. While he isn't a functional medicine doctor, he is willing to learn about new "old" treatments since traditional med schools avoid such topics. The other drs I had just replied with "well, that hasn't been standardized so you don't know the potency." Go away you ignorant plebe.

FCinNH's avatar

Oftentimes a patient will know more about their particular disease than a generalist doctor (the gatekeeper for the system) does. That generalist has to know about many, many different conditions whereas the patient focuses in depth on the one they have to deal with. There is so much new information coming out every month that it's unlikely that every provider can keep up with it all.

Treating the disease once the diagnosis is made is relatively easy compared to figuring out what the disease is. Many conditions have very similar symptoms so it can be hard to sort them out and figure out what is going on. I took medication for depression for a number of years (with little improvement) when the actual issues were thyroid and sleep issues, but my provider at the time conflated her own issues with mine. I found a much better diagnostician who did a very thorough work-up with no pre-conceived ideas and got to the bottom of it all.

It is essential to have a provider who actually LISTENS to what you have to say; too many make their minds up in the first 5 minutes and then ignore any contradictory evidence that may arise after that.

Nancy Benedict's avatar

This is interesting as I did not read Jurassic Park nor see the movie. But I did read Chrichton's book State of Fear, a novel with well researched data on the budding global warming theory. Spoiler: he was prescient in exposing the scam.

LRH's avatar

So much I could write about on this subject. My wife being diagnosed with Alzheimer’s about a year and a half ago. After going through many tests and scans the neurologist she was seeing , associated with the hospital system we were in, got her into a fairly experimental treatment, although was approved by the FDA, if that means anything anymore, presented to us as really her only hope to not cure, but to slow down the progress. Of course, looking for anything that might work for her we chose the program, signed all the waivers and started her infusion treatments after two months of infusion she basically had a stroke. Although it was minor, she had swelling on the brain and what they called “micro bleeding”. Her doctor immediately ceased the infusion followed up with two more MRIs to make sure no more damage was happening and from that point on she was just to be monitored. Felt like when she was no longer useful or profitable to the program she was gone so as to not shed any bad light on this infusion therapy. They only want to have the successful stories that protect the practice and continue the profits.

My opinion anyway.

James Schwartz's avatar

You’re much better off now getting a calamity policy that pays for emergencies and using online health companies for the rest. Some online health companies charge a couple hundred bucks and do bloodwork and if you get sick can have medication to you the same day. The system needs to collapse and comeback as a free market again. Once enough people go this route it’ll happen and things will change.

Concerned Citizen's avatar

The “government‑backstopped system” was primarily caused by Obama’s dumb socialist healthcare law. The majority of the Democratic Party is now a socialist party and it is the biggest danger to the United States. People should stop voting Democrat at every level. While the Republican Party makes mistakes (think: military actions without a team of leaders to take control for freedom for the people), the Democratic Party will continue to kill the US as it exists today. Another healthcare problem is executive compensation. CEOs, CFOs, COOs, and other alphabets at the top, receive disgustingly excessive salaries. These roles can be adequately compensated at $2 million per year rather than $8–$12 million.

Merryann's avatar

How much did the US government pay Pfizer and Moderna for every "free" Covid mRna vaccine injection? I read once, early on, that it was about $300 a pop, but that is probably low.

FCinNH's avatar

Had to be enough to kickback to the doctors if they could get their "vaccinated" numbers up. I'm not certain whether the government or the drug companies were footing those particular bribes.

Matt Poling MD's avatar

The insurance companies are the only sheriffs in town. Shooting them down will only accelerate the collapse of our health care system.

https://thebeagledotcom.wordpress.com/2024/12/08/last-weeks-assassination-may-have-mortally-wound-your-healthcare/

Keep America Free's avatar

Health insurance is a racket and hospitals are in collusion with insurance companies. My wife ran an independent imaging practice (MRI’s, CT’s). If the practice had been part of a hospital their reimbursement from insurance companies would have been 4X what they received as an independent. Someone please explain that to me.

FCinNH's avatar

The rationale is that hospitals expenses are higher because they run 24 hours a day with staffing in all essential departments. All of that is true, but those cost that they cannot directly charge for get distributed across those they con charge for. A hospital room rate includes nurses, housekeeping, staff in radiology, resp therapy, lab, engineering, pharmacy, food service, laundry service, etc. It's a very expensive operation to run a hospital, and so the insurers essentially go along with it to a point. They get huge discounts of the "billed" prices, of course, and a lot of that has to do with regulations about not offering prices lower than Medicare reimbursement levels, so hospitals are incentivized to inflate their prices and then heavily discount them. It's a gigantic mess, due in very, very large part to government regulation that stifles true competition and adds massive amounts of needless waste into the system.

TLF1776's avatar

Alex, you could specialize in healthcare, or create a spin-off of Unreported Truths that focuses on healthcare, as there is so much material to work with and you are really good at healthcare journalism.

I work in healthcare and feel more strongly than ever that we are headed for a huge correction in our industry. The Trump administration's new 2027 budget proposal calls for a huge cut in healthcare funding in order to fund more defense/war spending. I don't blame them for targeting healthcare, as there is demonstrated fraud, waste and abuse, not to mention exorbitant executive salaries. Congress will likely require compromises in the budget proposal before they will pass it. But still, enormous change is coming. I hope that you and your followers can help shape it.

Tom Ward's avatar

My dad was a dentist, and practiced until the mid-1980s. As he was retiring, he lamented the fact that dentistry was now moving toward "paid by insurance." (He merely charged set prices, and people paid him directly. Imagine that!) Of course, patients were thrilled; someone else would pay. My dad was not happy. He merely said "Prices are really going to go up now!" Rest in peace, dad. You dodged that bullet.

Dark Thomas's avatar

feels like bill gates and all these other CEOs are just researching the schemes of movie villains for new ideas

Lekimball's avatar

Hm. Health care is the biggest problem we face. It is not a "right," but it IS a priority to try to work out some kind of best -of- all evils solutions.

Forever Jaded's avatar

Bernie keeps telling everyone that HC is a right, believe him yet anyone?many do, and you have to wonder about our younger generation, immigrants? Scared to think long and hard about it..

Lekimball's avatar

Yes, just think of the ramifications of that. Just because you were BORN, you have a RIGHT to have someone else take care of you and pay for you? It's incredible entitlement attitude. Sorry, but there are no such guarantees in life and if the government promises it, they can't deliver. But maybe they can improve it.